NEW ACRA 1640TE

Interesting advice from Dan
Had a look at the Electronica website and as far as I can tell the signal output from the EMB readhead used with the SI is the same as the newer EMC14 A or B used with the newer stick on mini scales.
I purchased a S1 to replace the Glass scale on the cross slide of my 330 x 1000 lathe as it gets in the way of the cross slide lock but I am now investigating the mini scales as they are shorter and narrower which will totally solve my problem.

Will probably have two new S1 scales and read heads to sell (150 & 170 mm travel)

The other option is Ditron magnetic scales available from http://www.dcoee.com.
Cheers
Ron

I guess not knowing better about the available mini scale options at the time of purchase, I put stock into the advise I was given at the time. Dan was kind enough to include a 10" scale for the cost of a 8" but the entire system wasn't cheap. Todays been a bummer and it seems it still sucks knowing what I'm now learning.

Thanks for the information Dan.

Paco
 
The scale looks quite a bit shorter on mine, does your compound have that much travel to need all that scale Paco? If you can shorten it it might mount above the lock screw and behind the t-slot.

Greg

Hey Greg, I originally got a 10" to use on the tailstock but after reading more on the capabilities of vector and summing I opted to put it on the compound. Since the scales can be cut to size, I thought I would try it. Right now its sitting in place via double side 3M tape and I have access to the 14mm nut as well as t-slot clearance for the cover, but its on the right hand side as the compound lock and gib is on the left.
The total compound travel is 5" and need the full length shown to prevent contacting the readhead (2.375" long) at both extremes.
It does fit nice but I'm second guessing mounting on the right side for reasons mentioned by extropic. The CXA tooling has always provided a little extra clearance from the work and compound and has proven rigid on the 1440. This machine should be more rigid.

Cut the scale.
IMG_2995.JPG

This is how it sits now (mocked up). The readhead would be fixed towards the lower rear about .750" from the front end providing about .250" clearance from the end of the scale when compound is inward and the same clearance at the opposite end when the compound is cranked out.
Plenty of room for the 14mm wrench and clearance for the cover and t-slot.
IMG_0306.JPG

A close up with the cover resting on scale.
IMG_0307.JPG

Access to the lower nut with cover in the same location.
IMG_0308.JPG

Hope this makes sense.

Paco
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks for sharing your set up. How's it working out on the right side of the compound?
Clean install. Paco

DRO on RHS of compound is no problem. Its always a lesser of evils type decision. A small PITA thing is I remove the angle guard via 2 cap screws to get at the RHS compound bolt in the casting lug to adjust compound angle. Takes me 5 seconds. From that perspective it didn't matter anyway because the bolts are symmetric on either side. I just have to be careful about blindly man gripping the compound dial because the end of the carbon fiber encoder tube pokes out in the extended position. The whole 3rd axis was a bit of 'do I really need this?'. But the DRO box had a 3rd port & price was right & now I use it.

I was more concerned by placing the cross slide encoder on the LHS. That decision was driven by 2 things. Utilization of existing threaded casting holes for the travelling steady. And my knob for tightening the cross slide is on RHS. That could have been re-drilled by removing the cross slide assembly. But I didn't fancy myself reaching my hand on the chuck side to lock the carriage which I do pretty much every traversing pass so often its force of habit.

If I did a lot of travelling steady work I'd probably be regretting it. Although I have seen some neat adaptations to the toolpost or bolted to the cross slide table. That encoder install was one of those 'lets just see how it goes' type jobs. And it ended up never moving. :)

That is a really clean looking big boy lathe btw. I'm sure you will enjoy working on it
 
DRO on RHS of compound is no problem. Its always a lesser of evils type decision. A small PITA thing is I remove the angle guard via 2 cap screws to get at the RHS compound bolt in the casting lug to adjust compound angle. Takes me 5 seconds. From that perspective it didn't matter anyway because the bolts are symmetric on either side. I just have to be careful about blindly man gripping the compound dial because the end of the carbon fiber encoder tube pokes out in the extended position. The whole 3rd axis was a bit of 'do I really need this?'. But the DRO box had a 3rd port & price was right & now I use it.

I was more concerned by placing the cross slide encoder on the LHS. That decision was driven by 2 things. Utilization of existing threaded casting holes for the travelling steady. And my knob for tightening the cross slide is on RHS. That could have been re-drilled by removing the cross slide assembly. But I didn't fancy myself reaching my hand on the chuck side to lock the carriage which I do pretty much every traversing pass so often its force of habit.

If I did a lot of travelling steady work I'd probably be regretting it. Although I have seen some neat adaptations to the toolpost or bolted to the cross slide table. That encoder install was one of those 'lets just see how it goes' type jobs. And it ended up never moving. :)

That is a really clean looking big boy lathe btw. I'm sure you will enjoy working on it


Thanks for the reply, yup I get the less of two evils. I could rotate the scale 90º facing down with machined blocks, this would raise it up further and mount it on the LHS. I'm back on shift today, I can think about it further. On your Newall, are the cross slide and compound scales 1 micron?
Again, thanks for sharing.

Paco
 
Microsyn10 on the compound & cross slide. Spherosyn on the long axis.
http://newall.com/products/?name=Spherosyn/Microsyn+Encoders&catid=1&prid=17

I don't have much other DRO experience to compare, but based on pictures & whatnot, I really appreciate the Newall mounting hardware. You can readily make independent direction tweaks so it sits perfect relative to movement axis, avoiding a lot of weird & I would think less stable shimming. And these encoder mount end posts then double as fixture points for guars, which for me was just simple pieces of angle aluminum with 2 mounting holes in them. Doesn't get any easier figure.

I'm not sure of any other DRO systems that utilize these very compact (but robust) mini tube style encoders. The price & reliability of DROs iin general have improved so much since I installed my system, hard to say if I wouldn't venture down that path. But Newall has been rock solid FWIW.
 
Originally, I was looking at Newall 300 package offered by Acra for the reasons you stated, but that particular system, although affordable only offed the cross slide in a 5 micron scale. The next Newall upgrade that supports a 1micron was north of $2K for a 2 axis system.
Newall is proven and well respected.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
After considerable consideration I have decided to abandon the compound scale application. The real benefit to a compound scale would only be used on a limited basis but the cable would always be hanging out there waiting for something bad to happen. I had considered rotating the scale 90º (facing down) and placing it on the left hand side well above the gib lock but then I would have a cable draped across the dial full time with a fairly big loop to allow rotation of the compound. What I do use a lot like most of you is the tailstock. This machine has 6" graduations but travels a bit further. I started taking measurements and designing a bracket system that would allow the application of the third scale on the tailstock (TS) quill.
The scale would be fitted to the front side of the TS. I would have liked to use the rear but the two clamp levers don't provide enough clearance for this. I used some angle block to determine the angle of the TS body and set up the mill head accordingly and face milled the profile needed to bring the scale plumb. I feel by doing this it will make things easier to align the quill clamp arm to the scale leaving only lateral adjustment to set the air gap between the readhead and scale.

I set the X/Y in absolute and took readings prior to adjusting the nod. I had never had the opportunity to use the mill with the nod adjusted in the past as I was always able to set the work piece to the desired angle and go from there. The bar stock I was profiling would have required some creative clamping and it was much easier and safer to set the angle on the mill head. The initial readings using the co-axieal indicator was used to set the mill head back to neutral. I also used another dial indicator to double check the table as well. By setting the absolute, meant I was checking the same area for reset.
IMG_3019.JPG

The set up.
IMG_3018.JPG

I then milled a channel for the scale to to nest in.
IMG_3020.JPG

The thicker top portion of the scale bracket can be drilled/tapped for a cover if needed. The scale face is now vertical.
IMG_3021.JPG

A close up side by side. The holes in the bracket will be slotted after transfer punching. I find it easier and more precise than trying to find the center of a slot when working alone.
IMG_3022.JPG

So this design will make the readhead dynamic and the scale static. I did consider mounting the readhead to the TS body and scale to the quill bracket but felt this would be more secure and cleaner. The cable will loop around the back of the TS below the quill crank dial. I plan on incorporating travel stops into the arms by milling profiles into the male/female tracks. The stock for both scale and readhead brackets are .625" x 1.5" aluminum rectangular bar stock I already had. The quill arm profile will fit over the scale and have clearance to ride along the top and bottom portions of the scale bracket. At least thats the plan. The quill arm will have a pocket milled for the readhead to nest in with two threaded mounting holes. The lateral adjustment will come from the connection (two counter bored/slotted holes between the arm and quill bracket.
I need to finish up the quill clamp bracket and mount it prior to final design of the readhead arm.

Cut a piece of 1/2" x 3"x 6" from some flat bar I had and laid out for boring the quill diameter of 2.046". The rear if the clamp will be drilled/tapped for a single countersunk Allen head cap screw. The cold saw will provide the .120" wide slit. I bored the quill hole .004" oversize for a decent slip fit. I figured the slit provided would give enough to clamp up well.

Used the largest annular cutter I had to save time. Working with aluminum is so much nicer with the soft chips and the nice surface finish comes easy.
Most of the machining to this point had been dry with an occasional shot of WD-40 on final passes.
Annular speed was 325 RPM.
IMG_3028.JPG

With the 1.8125" hole provided the boring operation went quick. Boring was done at 250 RPM using a carbide tipped cutter.
The surface finish was very nice.
IMG_3029.JPG

A super spacer rotary was set up next to the vice to cut the radius profiles. The end mill used was a three flute 7/16" at 1500 RPM.
I did use plenty of WD-40 and low PSI shop air for this operation. I also took no more than .040" DOC since the chuck was gripping the bore with just enough clamp force to prevent marring. Also used .125" parallels to set clearance between the work piece and top of jaws.
Having a long table saves time from having to remove the vice and re-tramming for the following operations. I had slight chatter but not surprising due to the setup.

Using the co-axeal indicator to find center. I really like this instrument. My wife and son gave it to me for Christmas two years ago. I use it often and it beats getting an ugly sweater for Christmas :D
IMG_3030.JPG

With the center located, the X/Y absolute where set once again. The protoTrak system really helps and with a return to absolute button it makes it easy for me to keep track. This mill is capable of milling the entire bracket without the use of this setup but I'm still learning the CNC functions and mostly machine via commands by inputing numbers for power feed rates and jog. Honestly, manual milling forces me to get creative and use more of my pee brain.
I do appreciate the potential of this machine and will probably hire a tutor to come in and teach me how to use this machine to it full potential.
I'm a metal fabricator first and a novice machinist second.
Once set to center, the cutters offset or compensation was set moving the X feed (locked X/Y on the table), the piece was rotated to both starting/end points for each cut taking notes on where the degree pointer where before the fist cut was made . The final .020" clean up pass provided a real nice finish seen here.
IMG_3031.JPG

pretty happy with the results so far.
IMG_3032.JPG

The setup. I'm gonna need to save up for one of these rotary tools. Mark's (mksj) been kind, trusting and generous with me. Rest assured, when he gets it back it will be clean and serviced like it was never used.:cool 2:
IMG_3033.JPG


I also got the Y scale cover cut and installed. The compact scale looks/fits nice. To cut the cover I used a cheap electric hand shear from HF along the bottom length. The cover is extremely soft but too thick for hand shears.
IMG_3035.JPG

The clearance between the readhead bracket and cover is just under 1/16".
IMG_3036.JPG


I would like to thank everyone who chimed in on the compound. I take your time seriously and ask
opinions from those who care about helping.
That said, thanks again, I'm learning everyday so your time was not wasted.
In the end I will use the TS DRO way more than compound vector/summing and the proximity carriage stop also plays an important role in precise depth stop.

No shop time today, I have to sit in class all day for a recertification, I'll be day dreaming about what I could be doing in the shop.....I mean learning prehospital trauma management (PHTLS) ...again. You know you'r old when this is the ninth recertification for this course. The state/ fire department requires nine different certs (every two years) to work as a medic. Oh well, at least they pay me to learn on my time off.

Thanks for looking and Turn and Burn!
Stay safe out there.

Paco
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The DRO cables draping off my compound & cross travel encoders is something I scratched my head about too. When I bought my lathe I naively did not get the back splash included, now of course I'm regretting it. Recently I was about to fabricate something & thought - but how are these cables going to traverse along without getting hung up on anything if the splash is (typically) attached to the bottom tray or lip on the stand or whatever, where its basically sealed off? Maybe a slit? Any good ideas to pass along?
 
The DRO cables draping off my compound & cross travel encoders is something I scratched my head about too. When I bought my lathe I naively did not get the back splash included, now of course I'm regretting it. Recently I was about to fabricate something & thought - but how are these cables going to traverse along without getting hung up on anything if the splash is (typically) attached to the bottom tray or lip on the stand or whatever, where its basically sealed off? Maybe a slit? Any good ideas to pass along?

When you make your back splash, make it with a return at the bottom that allows the swarf to fall into your chip pan (at least 1"). The smaller 1440 lathe has a fairly deep removable chip tray that has never hindered/snagged the cables while traversing. On the headstock end, the cables are ran up the inside (vertical) of the back splash and secured with cable clamps back to back. as shown in the photo below.
IMG_1520.JPG

I do have to lift up the cabling when sliding in the chip drawer back in or they will get pinched between the backsplash and drawer. Not a big deal since I have to lift up the coolant hose as well.
On the New machine, I think I might use some cable tie brackets along the lower bed and use some 3M double side tape. This stuff really sticks well if you clean off the area toughly. A photo of you machine might help spawn some ideas for your backsplash cable management.

Paco
 
Back
Top