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coolidge

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Bummer, take your time and be safe lifting that mother.
 

wrmiller

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Bummer, take your time and be safe lifting that mother.
Will do, thanks. I'm just glad I noticed the hoist was tweaked BEFORE I tried to lift the mill any higher. I looked up a portable 2T gantry, but those things are pricey! I'll make sure I pick Jon's brain a bit more about how he did his mill before I do this.
 

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It also happens to me....no free time to work during the week. I would like to try my mill a bit higher but definitely need an engine hoist.....there is no way I can use the portable fork lift......not enough height. Not available for rent one around here, so I have been looking for a new one and found a couple.......no Internet purchases of such things in this part of the world. They are made in china and the difference between the 1T and 2T is only the hydraulic jack. Wonder if this is the way it works. I think will give it a try.
 

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It would be a bit of extra work, but you could disassemble the mill. I think a few have indicated they figured the head at around 300#. Then you could also pick the base up from closer to the table. I ran straps corner to corner to those big bolts sticking out the sides of the base and picked up where they cross so I wouldn't put any strain on the column. I think one strap was an actual lifting sling, and then I used 2 ratchet tie down straps so I could adjust the load so it would sit level.
 

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They are made in china and the difference between the 1T and 2T is only the hydraulic jack. Wonder if this is the way it works.
I looked at the 1T and 2T cranes at harbor freight side by side and the 1T has a shorter boom and base and subsequently less lift range. I think the 1T cylinders have the power to lift the machine, but the crane needs to be heavy duty enough to not have the material fail. My memory is that at full extension the 1T crane is only rated to 500#.
 

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Thanks guys. When I spoke of lifting this thing with Paul the Ops Mgr at Charter Oak he said that lifting by the head is the safest way to do this. When I lifted the machine to get it off the pallet, I was around the round part of the head/column mount and another strap around that one and the column to keep it from shifting. With this, the front of the mill base was drooping a few inches. I'm thinking that when I attempt this again, I will lift more under the head itself to balance the machine better. Next week isn't going to get here soon enough... :(
 

coolidge

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Recommend your main lift strap is around the head/column as you proposed but then use secondary ratchet straps to level it. I do this frequently for heavy lifts for all sorts of things, my lathe for example. Just did this last week lifting an awkward 600 pound 5 foot wide rototiller for my tractor.
 

wrmiller

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Well, the 2T hoist showed up today. Fortunately the thing showed up in two boxes, with the heaviest one weighing about 134 lbs. I was blowing pretty hard after carrying it only about 20' or so. I guess we all get old(er)... :(

I'll get the hoist assembled tonight. Not sure if I'll get the mill lifted onto it's stand tonight or not. Stay tuned. :)
 

wrmiller

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Man, I'm starting to wonder what ELSE can go sideways on this effort. To summarize:

Started putting the hoist together when I noticed that the sliding portion of the boom is missing. So is the chain/hook. The heavy box showed up all wrapped in plastic and torn open on both ends from people dragging the thing instead of picking it up. Granted...I wouldn't want to carry this puppy very far, but hey, I'm 60 years old. I'll bet the guys dragging this thing were in their 20s or 30s.

So, I wrote the vendor and he asked for part names and numbers and will see if the manufacturer can replace these parts or if they have to ship me a new one. Cool, but this is gonna take time and I'm kinda getting impatient. Went back out to the garage and pulled the sliding part of the boom off my 1T (I guess it was a good thing I had it, or as my wife says "everything happens for a reason") and yup, it fits almost perfect in the 2Ts boom. Looks a little short though...

Finish putting the hoist together and start doing trial fits of the mill's stand over the hoist. Isn't going to work as the sliding boom doesn't extend far enough, and the stand can't get over the legs of the hoist. Whilst contemplating violence, i.e., shooting this puppy just to make myself feel better, I came up with an idea: take the wheels off the hoist and slide it around on it's frame. The stand will roll right over the legs and it looks like I can cock it just so and get it under the hook. Cool.

So I carefully hook up the mill and with fingers crossed (I'm the only one here, so if things go sideways...) I start lifting the mill off the floor. The front is still drooping several inches, but things are looking good so far. I take my time and gingerly raise the mill trying not to jostle it too much. I get the hoist at full extension, wait for it, and I'm not high enough. Damn...

Back on the floor and me sitting on a stool trying to think of something. I put the head all the way down to the table, and shorten the chain to the last link before the hook. Here we go again. Still not high enough. Double Damn...

Good thing my wife isn't hear to hear me swearing. All I needed was my old D.I. hat and I probably could have peeled paint off a battleship. I definitely could have had some boot privates wetting their trousers like the old days.

Then I had an idea. I was pretty close, so I decided to take the wheels off the mill's stand and get it as low on it's feet as possible. While the mill was hanging there I did a quick removal of the wheels and slid the stand under the mill with just front right corner of the mill touching the stand. I tweaked the last half inch out of the hoist and then proceeded to wrestle the chip tray between the stand and the mill. Won't go into details as I'm sure some people here would be screaming "unsafe!" but hey, I'm still here, everything is still attached, and I only bled a little. ;)

Once I had the mill and chip tray on the stand, I slid the hoist out from under it and then proceeded to jack the stand up with its feet and put the wheels back on. The mill is sitting where it's going to stay and I will level and go over it this weekend. 5 hours to get this far. I'm tired. :)

I apologize for the pics: They were taken with my phone not my camera, and my hands were shaking a bit. Like I said I'm tired.


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IMG_0436.jpg IMG_0438.jpg IMG_0439.JPG
 

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Nice work Bill. I can't tell you how many times I have had to make something work when I am by myself. I have never, knock on wood, gotten hurt, but I had to have a two level fusion in my neck from two collapsed discs. My doctor told me it was from beating up my body by lifting things I shouldn't have. I was also a strength coach in college, I am sure that didn't help. Anyway congrats on the new mill. I looked at the CO's, but they were a little out of my budget. It will be interesting to see how you make out.

Good Luck!
 

wrmiller

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Anyway congrats on the new mill. I looked at the CO's, but they were a little out of my budget. It will be interesting to see how you make out.

Good Luck!
Hey Brooks,

I didn't know about the COs when I bought my PM25 or I might have waited until I could afford it. But, I'm not planning to get rid of Blue just yet.

I've got some ideas for stiffening the column a bit and am going to redesign parts of the pulley system I bought and will use it for light duty/high rpm work with small cutters. I'll use El Hefe for the larger stuff. :)

In the last pic I posted you can see, albeit somewhat blurry, just how much bigger the CO is compared to the PM. A friend here was telling me how he buries a 1/2" end mill in 1/2" 4140 and the mill doesn't complain a bit. Different tools for different jobs.

I did a light cleanup on El Hefe and oiled the ways to try them out. Very smooth. Maker of Things was telling me that he didn't even check tram on his mill until today or adjust the gibs. After checking the tram he didn't have to touch a thing. I'm hoping mine turns out as good as his.

Now that I've got the 'heavy stuff' out of the way, I'm looking forward to the weekend. :allgood:
 

coolidge

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Way to go on the creative solution and refraining from dressing in cammo and going on a rampage. ;-)
 

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Bill, good work. I say no fouls for any bleeding that can be stopped with a bandage in a situation like that. I think your garage is a little too tall though, the mill looks less menacing when you can't see the ceiling in the pic.
 

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Bill, good work. I say no fouls for any bleeding that can be stopped with a bandage in a situation like that. I think your garage is a little too tall though, the mill looks less menacing when you can't see the ceiling in the pic.
It's still pretty menacing, all black and such. Height is just about perfect for me @ 6'3". Glad I asked for an extra 4" of height on the stand. The bleeding was minimal. I raised a burr on the edge of the chip tray getting it between the mill and stand. Then I promptly ran the inside of my middle finger over it. Right in the joint too... @#$^@$%^@%$ ;)

First mill I've ever owned that I had to look 'up' to see the fwd/rev switch (my friends BP clone was like that, but I didn't own it). And that is with the head mid-range in Z. And near as I can tell, the ceiling is somewhere between 9 and 10' tall.

But I still named him El Hefe (The Boss). :roflmao:
 

zmotorsports

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Congrats Bill. Looks great. Now get to making chips.
 

wrmiller

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Congrats Bill. Looks great. Now get to making chips.
Can I at least wire the plug and check tram? It's easier to do when I don't have chips all over the place. :)

That reminds me, I can actually use a 3" face mill now. Any recommendations? I have to surface some iron and steel for my new cross slide and compound I'm going to make.

Oh and Mike: I saved some weight going with this mill over the 935, but it probably takes up as much room as yours. But at least I can (carefully) move mine around on it's wheels. :)
 

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Can I at least wire the plug and check tram? It's easier to do when I don't have chips all over the place. :)

That reminds me, I can actually use a 3" face mill now. Any recommendations? I have to surface some iron and steel for my new cross slide and compound I'm going to make.

Oh and Mike: I saved some weight going with this mill over the 935, but it probably takes up as much room as yours. But at least I can (carefully) move mine around on it's wheels. :)
Sure, but what is taking you so long.:whistle: There was a time I thought about making mine "mobile" to move around the shop but figured that would just be more of a hassle than leaving it in it's assigned spot and working around it. Probably six of one and a half a dozen of the other.

As far as a facing mill/cutter, I bought one from Shars a few months ago and have used it a couple of times now, works pretty well for the price. I have a Glacern in my sights but a little more saving first.
 

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I have been eyeballing the Tormach superfly cutter. I was quite impressed by the videos.
 

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That reminds me, I can actually use a 3" face mill now. Any recommendations? I have to surface some iron and steel for my new cross slide and compound I'm going to make.
I was told that 2.5" is just about max for a BP mill & R8 taper unless only taking light cuts. Stalling the motor is one thing for low HP but the R8 taper is not designed to handle it & you may have chatter issues. I never used a large FM on a BP so I don't know & just listened.

I went with a 2.5" 45° FM from Glacern. Got a great deal on it from a member of another forum who converted his PM45 to CNC & changed the spindle. And it was the integral shank model that I had my eye on, no separate shell arbor. It cuts like butter but makes a hell of mess in my garage, I've never stalled my motor with it. I just ordered a Dorian 2" FM, hopefully it shows up soon as I'm really curious how it will perform.

IH used to offer an ISO30 taper spindle for these style mills & is what that other member converted his too, I was there the day he received it. Not sure about now. Similar taper as an R8 but much longer.
 
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coolidge

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Still no chips? Drop and give me 20! Belt drive update, the good news is CO's price for the belt drive is the 2 speed belt drive featured on ArizonVideo's youtube videos. The bad news is they are only getting 2 of the expected 3 units and both are already spoken for so its hurry up and wait.
 

wrmiller

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I was told that 2.5" is just about max for a BP mill & R8 taper unless only taking light cuts. Stalling the motor is one thing for low HP but the R8 taper is not designed to handle it & you may have chatter issues. I never used a large FM on a BP so I don't know & just listened.

I went with a 2.5" 45° FM from Glacern. Got a great deal on it from a member of another forum who converted his PM45 to CNC & changed the spindle. And it was the integral shank model that I had my eye on, no separate shell arbor. It cuts like butter but makes a hell of mess in my garage, I've never stalled my motor with it. I just ordered a Dorian 2" FM, hopefully it shows up soon as I'm really curious how it will perform.

IH used to offer an ISO30 taper spindle for these style mills & is what that other member converted his too, I was there the day he received it. Not sure about now. Similar taper as an R8 but much longer.
Thanks Will,

My friend used to use a 3" on his BP clone, but with very light cuts, and he had the same HP as me (3HP). I have looked at the FM45, and liked what I saw, but will have to save up for it.

The ISO30 is an upgrade available to me, but in researching it the only holders I could find started at 1/2" and went up to 1.5". And they are a bit more pricey than R8 collets. Not sure I'll ever run a 1" end mill, but then I also said I'd never own a mill this large. :)

I will look at getting a 2.5". Thanks.
 

wrmiller

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Still no chips? Drop and give me 20! Belt drive update, the good news is CO's price for the belt drive is the 2 speed belt drive featured on ArizonVideo's youtube videos. The bad news is they are only getting 2 of the expected 3 units and both are already spoken for so its hurry up and wait.
Is that the one that spins to 5k? That would be cool. In my last conversation with Paul, he was saying that even with the belt drive conversion there is still a lot of torque at slower speeds. I guess I'll have to get on the waiting list, but for now the 3hp VFD should give me more than enough range to start playing with.

EDIT: So...you said two of the expected three are already spoken for. Are you talking to CO about a mill? Hmmm? ;)
 

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Thanks Will,

My friend used to use a 3" on his BP clone, but with very light cuts, and he had the same HP as me (3HP). I have looked at the FM45, and liked what I saw, but will have to save up for it.

The ISO30 is an upgrade available to me, but in researching it the only holders I could find started at 1/2" and went up to 1.5". And they are a bit more pricey than R8 collets. Not sure I'll ever run a 1" end mill, but then I also said I'd never own a mill this large. :)

I will look at getting a 2.5". Thanks.
No problem Bill. When I was ready to buy a FM & was told that, I thought, sure I can live with taking light cuts. But the more I thought about it taking very light cuts all the time would suck. Of course on alumn it might not be so bad but I didn't want to take the chance & I'm glad I went with the 2.5" 45°. IIRC the the Glacern FM45 2.5" integral shank goes on sale for $129. They should have a sale coming up during Halloween & Thanksgiving. At least that's when I purchased my vise & other stuff from them.

I too heard ISO30 tooling costs more but when I looked it up they really don't cost much more at all, plus a lot more tooling manufacturers offer stuff in ISO30 & not much for R8. I had thought about the ISO30 conversion at the time too but decided I'll be fine with R8 while I have my current mill. I don't use R8 collets often though, mostly just for setup. I use ER16 & ER40 for milling.
 

wrmiller

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No problem Bill. When I was ready to buy a FM & was told that, I thought, sure I can live with taking light cuts. But the more I thought about it taking very light cuts all the time would suck. Of course on alumn it might not be so bad but I didn't want to take the chance & I'm glad I went with the 2.5" 45°. IIRC the the Glacern FM45 2.5" integral shank goes on sale for $129. They should have a sale coming up during Halloween & Thanksgiving. At least that's when I purchased my vise & other stuff from them.

I too heard ISO30 tooling costs more but when I looked it up they really don't cost much more at all, plus a lot more tooling manufacturers offer stuff in ISO30 & not much for R8. I had thought about the ISO30 conversion at the time too but decided I'll be fine with R8 while I have my current mill. I don't use R8 collets often though, mostly just for setup. I use ER16 & ER40 for milling.
Correction: Charter Oak offers a NT30 spindle upgrade. Different I think.
 

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Correction: Charter Oak offers a NT30 spindle upgrade. Different I think.
I'm not for sure but I believe NT30 & ISO30 have the same taper, it's just the drawbar thread that is different. NT30 tooling has imperial threads & ISO30 tooling has metric threads. So I assume the spindle doesn't matter, just the tooling & drawbar. One of them is more popular than the other, I think ISO30 is more popular, well amongst Asian machines as I often see the R8/ISO30 option with mill manufacturers.

EDIT: Just looked it up, looks like the difference is only the drawbar thread so the spindle should be able to accept both. Of the 2, not sure which is actually more popular. Doesn't matter, we have R8 anyway. And I have too much tooling in R8 now for me to change to ISO30 & start over. Even if/when I get a knee mill (maybe), I'll probably just stick to R8 so I don't have to buy tooling all over again.
 

zmotorsports

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IIRC the the Glacern FM45 2.5" integral shank goes on sale for $129. They should have a sale coming up during Halloween & Thanksgiving.
Thanks Will. I have been eyeballing that one for when it goes on sale. I'll have to keep checking.
 

coolidge

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Is that the one that spins to 5k? That would be cool. In my last conversation with Paul, he was saying that even with the belt drive conversion there is still a lot of torque at slower speeds. I guess I'll have to get on the waiting list, but for now the 3hp VFD should give me more than enough range to start playing with.

EDIT: So...you said two of the expected three are already spoken for. Are you talking to CO about a mill? Hmmm? ;)
Yes that's the 5k version. I asked Paul about torque with the belt drive, one of their mills has the two speed belt drive installed and they have no problem drilling and tapping using the lower speed. I also exchanged email with ArizonaVideo who makes the kits and I got the feeling from him the 2 speed was the way to go.

Look here, my CO mill is INBOUND and if I make chips before you I'm going to mock you without mercy! :rofl:
 

wrmiller

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I'm not for sure but I believe NT30 & ISO30 have the same taper, it's just the drawbar thread that is different. NT30 tooling has imperial threads & ISO30 tooling has metric threads. So I assume the spindle doesn't matter, just the tooling & drawbar. One of them is more popular than the other, I think ISO30 is more popular, well amongst Asian machines as I often see the R8/ISO30 option with mill manufacturers.

EDIT: Just looked it up, looks like the difference is only the drawbar thread so the spindle should be able to accept both. Of the 2, not sure which is actually more popular. Doesn't matter, we have R8 anyway. And I have too much tooling in R8 now for me to change to ISO30 & start over. Even if/when I get a knee mill (maybe), I'll probably just stick to R8 so I don't have to buy tooling all over again.
Well, I'm not sure what to do. I need to buy collets for the new machine and am not sure if I want to buy more R8 collets or maybe go ER. Thoughts?
 
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