New Charter Oak 12Z on the way

wrmiller

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Paul (Charter Oak Ops Mgr) told me this morning that the top was going on the crate as we spoke, and it should go out today. :happyhappy:

And I even found a pristine 5" Kurt for it. Now all I have to hope for is the shipping company doesn't damage it...

Bill
 
Why did you choose the Charter Oak over other mills in this price range? Also what options if any did you select? I spoke briefly with Charter Oak this week on price and availability. I still need to speak with someone who knows the machines well to confirm it will not have certain issues, key among them is binding on X, Y, or Z with loose spots and tight spots and the whole lap the ways fiasco. Love the work cube on the Charter Oak but crap ways will be a deal killer.
 
Larger table, longer travel in all axis', 3 HP VFD upgrade, custom height stand and better upgrades available.

I'm going to burst your bubble here, in that if you think talking "with someone who knows the machines well" is going to guarantee you get a good mill, you might want to consider buying a lottery ticket. You'll get better odds. The problem you speak of (ways) is exactly the problem I had with my PM machine. I wasn't the only one, and I think it was pretty rare, but you don't care how rare it is when it happens to you. Matt replaced the column (thanks Matt), and I re-worked the other axis'. You think you're going to get consistent quality out of China on any of these machines? Your dreaming. No offense intended.

But the main reason behind why I went with CO is because they have the machines inspected by a Brit company during the build process. Then the machine is re-inspected (and I don't me a quick visual) here for proper functionality, the head is drained and the spindle bearings are replaced with better quality NSKs, the head flushed, re-filled and the bearings run in prior to crating back up and shipped to the customer. There are no absolutes, but I feel this process is better than what I'm seeing out of some other companies.

And after all that, I will still go over the machine myself because there are no guarantees here. Guarantees like my friend at work who bought a BP thought he was getting because it is "US made" and found significant wear in both x and y such that the damn table sags when traversing in either axis near center. And the head needs rebuilt. It's a POS.

Your mileage may vary,
Bill
P.S. Good or bad, I will report my impressions with the machine as I get her up and running.


Why did you choose the Charter Oak over other mills in this price range? Also what options if any did you select? I spoke briefly with Charter Oak this week on price and availability. I still need to speak with someone who knows the machines well to confirm it will not have certain issues, key among them is binding on X, Y, or Z with loose spots and tight spots and the whole lap the ways fiasco. Love the work cube on the Charter Oak but crap ways will be a deal killer.
 
Congratulations Bill, that looks to be a great machine. I look forward to seeing your report.

Dave
 
Congratulations Bill, that looks to be a great machine. I look forward to seeing your report.

Dave

I am hoping so (that it's a great machine), but being somewhat a realist, I am sure there will be warts. There always are on these class of machines. I'm just hoping that the process that Paul described to me mitigates the bigger ones.

But then again I'm one of those oddballs that actually enjoys tweaking, tuning, and making mods for my machines. I am NOT expecting the quality of a Hardinge HLV or that of a new BP in a $2400 mill. ;)

Bill
 
Well its good they are inspecting them, they may as well inspect all the ways for binding before shipping one to me because if it has that problem its getting shipped right back to them for a refund. Years ago I purchased one of the early IH CNC machines so I am intimately familiar with the Rong Fu and its issues, binding ways in particular. I realize the CO is a variant manufactured to their specs. I ended up scrapping the IH it was that bad. I won't be converting this one to CNC I just want a manual mill of reasonable quality in this price range. A Haas Super Minimill 2 is on the horizon for CNC duty.

I'm also considering the 3HP VFD upgrade as 1600 rpm is too slow. I'd like to gather more information on it for example is the motor CHINA or something better. They also have an option for a 2 speed belt drive upgrade for $785, the old Rong Fu gear box is LOUD as freaking hell at 2,000 rpm as I recall.
 
Well its good they are inspecting them, they may as well inspect all the ways for binding before shipping one to me because if it has that problem its getting shipped right back to them for a refund. Years ago I purchased one of the early IH CNC machines so I am intimately familiar with the Rong Fu and its issues, binding ways in particular. I realize the CO is a variant manufactured to their specs. I ended up scrapping the IH it was that bad. I won't be converting this one to CNC I just want a manual mill of reasonable quality in this price range. A Haas Super Minimill 2 is on the horizon for CNC duty.

I'm also considering the 3HP VFD upgrade as 1600 rpm is too slow. I'd like to gather more information on it for example is the motor CHINA or something better. They also have an option for a 2 speed belt drive upgrade for $785, the old Rong Fu gear box is LOUD as freaking hell at 2,000 rpm as I recall.

I didn't mention previously, but my future upgrades are the one-shot oiling system, a power feed for the X axis, and the 2 speed belt drive. Don't know if CO has the gears ground, but they are hardened.

I am hoping that because they use this machine as the basis for their CNC machine, that there won't be any problems with the ways. We will see. I also don't believe IH was doing all the quality inspections that CO is doing. Again, the proof will be in the machine I receive. Of note is the PM 932: It is the same basic machine as the RF and people here are not screaming that the machine is junk.

I too am just looking for a decent quality machine in this price range, but I was initially drawn to the CO by the Y axis travel. Tired of machines with a 9" wide table and 7 or 8" of travel in Y. Seems kinda stupid (to me). :)

If all goes well, I will get a machine with the capacity of a small knee mill (table size, axis travel) but without all the bulk of a 1500-2500 lb. machine. Of course this also means this machine will not be a rigid as a full blow knee mill (I do not have that requirement in a hobby mill), but I can at least roll it up a ramp on a moving truck. Always tradeoffs...

Bill
P.S. I'll let you know the make of the VFD and motor when I get the machine.
 
...I will get a machine with the capacity of a small knee mill (table size, axis travel) but without all the bulk of a 1500-2500 lb. machine. Of course this also means this machine will not be a rigid as a full blow knee mil

Not necessarily true. A Knee mill packs all the weight in the base and the knee, and is fairly lightweight up top. The design to swivel along three axis to maximize flexibility has a negative impact on rigidity. An RF45 style probably has similar rigidity to a knee mill (not a tree, but at least a 9x49 Bridgeport style), and the IH model with the beefed up column and improved head collar should be fairly decent.

What you lose compared to the bridgeport is the flexibility that rotating, nodding, and sliding the head gives you. Since 99% of the machining most people do does not require nodding or sliding the head, you don't miss out on much. That being said, if I went back to a manual machine, it would be a knee mill (probably the 935TV to save space).
 
Not necessarily true. A Knee mill packs all the weight in the base and the knee, and is fairly lightweight up top. The design to swivel along three axis to maximize flexibility has a negative impact on rigidity. An RF45 style probably has similar rigidity to a knee mill (not a tree, but at least a 9x49 Bridgeport style), and the IH model with the beefed up column and improved head collar should be fairly decent.

What you lose compared to the bridgeport is the flexibility that rotating, nodding, and sliding the head gives you. Since 99% of the machining most people do does not require nodding or sliding the head, you don't miss out on much. That being said, if I went back to a manual machine, it would be a knee mill (probably the 935TV to save space).

What you said is interesting, and has been said to me by others. I have heard Ray C. talk about his 932 here on the site and it appears to be a very robust machine for what it is.

Making small stuff, pistolsmithing and such doesn't typically require very exotic setups. The only advantage I see in a BP style head for my particular usage would be the ease of tramming the head. But I am learning to 'never say never' and who knows exactly what I will want/have 5-6 years down the road. :)

Bill
 
I didn't mention previously, but my future upgrades are the one-shot oiling system, a power feed for the X axis, and the 2 speed belt drive. Don't know if CO has the gears ground, but they are hardened.

I am hoping that because they use this machine as the basis for their CNC machine, that there won't be any problems with the ways. We will see. I also don't believe IH was doing all the quality inspections that CO is doing. Again, the proof will be in the machine I receive. Of note is the PM 932: It is the same basic machine as the RF and people here are not screaming that the machine is junk.

I too am just looking for a decent quality machine in this price range, but I was initially drawn to the CO by the Y axis travel. Tired of machines with a 9" wide table and 7 or 8" of travel in Y. Seems kinda stupid (to me). :)

If all goes well, I will get a machine with the capacity of a small knee mill (table size, axis travel) but without all the bulk of a 1500-2500 lb. machine. Of course this also means this machine will not be a rigid as a full blow knee mill (I do not have that requirement in a hobby mill), but I can at least roll it up a ramp on a moving truck. Always tradeoffs...

Bill
P.S. I'll let you know the make of the VFD and motor when I get the machine.

I actually prefer this style bed mill to a knee mill and the Y travel on most knee mills is around 9 inches vs 12 for this mill. I have looked at some used industrial bed mills which dwarf the CO but like you I'm not really looking for a 4000 pound beast. I can lift the CO with my tractor front end loader, its not so heavy that I can't put in on wheels so I can shove it out of the way when I need to. I have a Grizzly G4003G 12-36 lathe and it seems every time I turn around I need a mill for some operation.

Are you going to counter weight the head? I counter weighted my old Rong Fu and will do the same with the CO if I purchase one especially since the spindle sticks out 12 inches from the column, those gear heads plus the motor is a lot of weight pitching forward.

I thought the price of the CO was quite reasonable compared with Grizzly and others. Shipping to me on the west coast is brutal, the quote is about $560 ouch!
 
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