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New early 1900's Cincinnati Shaper Project

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madmodifier

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#1
Picked up a "new" shaper today. I need to make the top ways, not sure what the term is. The way bars that retain the ram. Apparently the story is they got used by a farmer for steel. Is the best idea to get a couple bars of ground flat stock? How many oil cups should they have? There are no data plates or serial numbers on the machine that I could find. Unfortunately there is a broken hand wheel that probably cannot be replaced. I have searched around the interwebs but there is not much information out there. In fact ebay has an 18" version of this machine and that is the first picture that I have been able to find of a Cincinnati with a square door.

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brino

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#2

madmodifier

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#3
Guess not Brino. I have reviewed all the vintage machinery materials.
 

Uglydog

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#4
Mad,
This is great!!
Seriously!!

To bad about the missing parts.
While likely different, my lil' 16" Whipp is of about the same vintage and style. If you'd like you can look at mine for ideas on fabing your parts.


Daryl
MN
 
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f350ca

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#5
Thats going to be a nice machine Ben. With the amount of information out there on the web its amazing the holes that exist. I have an 18 inch Peerless that was made in Ontario not sure when. Have searched and found a few other people that have them but no information about them. There was a company by the same name that made powered hacksaws in the states but no affiliation.
On the bars my first thought is that they should be made of cast iron. I'd be afraid steel would gall. You can get continuous cast bar stock. Durabar is one company that makes it.
Mine has an oiler between each of the hold down bolts.
Hope you post your rebuild.
Greg
 

Uglydog

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#6
On the bars my first thought is that they should be made of cast iron. I'd be afraid steel would gall. You can get continuous cast bar stock. Durabar is one company that makes it. Mine has an oiler between each of the hold down bolts.
Agreed.
Durabar is a good option.

Daryl
MN
 

core-oil

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#7
Stupidity seems to be universal the world over, Using the guide strips from a good machine to obtain a portion of flat stock is beyond stupid, This story matches a genius I know , Who on recieving a nice lathe from me Complete with a turned plug , with the mandrel nose thread & register as well. , A lot of nice accurate work,It was designed to save time when turning backplates and screw on fixtures for special tasks (note the plug had nice knurled grip, & was marked Mandrel nose plug for boring & screwing fixtures, A lot of passed in making it) Anyway our man needed a washer so he set it up in the saw and cut it to the length he required -- Vandalism, Sacrilage, Ignorance, Arrogance ? Take your pick!
 

madmodifier

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#8
Mad,
This is great!!
Seriously!!

To bad about the missing parts.
While likely different, my lil' 16" Whipp is of about the same vintage and style. If you'd like you can look at mine for ideas on fabing your parts.


Daryl
MN
Thanks Daryl! Hopefully I will be able to take you up on that offer soon.
 

madmodifier

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#9
Stupidity seems to be universal the world over, Using the guide strips from a good machine to obtain a portion of flat stock is beyond stupid, This story matches a genius I know , Who on recieving a nice lathe from me Complete with a turned plug , with the mandrel nose thread & register as well. , A lot of nice accurate work,It was designed to save time when turning backplates and screw on fixtures for special tasks (note the plug had nice knurled grip, & was marked Mandrel nose plug for boring & screwing fixtures, A lot of passed in making it) Anyway our man needed a washer so he set it up in the saw and cut it to the length he required -- Vandalism, Sacrilage, Ignorance, Arrogance ? Take your pick!
Yikes. Things that people do to save from going to the steel yard.
 

madmodifier

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#10
Thats going to be a nice machine Ben. With the amount of information out there on the web its amazing the holes that exist. I have an 18 inch Peerless that was made in Ontario not sure when. Have searched and found a few other people that have them but no information about them. There was a company by the same name that made powered hacksaws in the states but no affiliation.
On the bars my first thought is that they should be made of cast iron. I'd be afraid steel would gall. You can get continuous cast bar stock. Durabar is one company that makes it.
Mine has an oiler between each of the hold down bolts.
Hope you post your rebuild.
Greg
Thanks for the info Greg. Good thoughts on the cast "dura" bar. I suppose then I could do a quick mill and scrape it flat. At least on the way side.
 

tertiaryjim

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#11
My 7" Rhodes shaper uses hardened steel bars. A file skates on them.
Jim
 

madmodifier

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#12
Making some progress on the cleanup.

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madmodifier

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#13
Thats going to be a nice machine Ben. With the amount of information out there on the web its amazing the holes that exist. I have an 18 inch Peerless that was made in Ontario not sure when. Have searched and found a few other people that have them but no information about them. There was a company by the same name that made powered hacksaws in the states but no affiliation.
On the bars my first thought is that they should be made of cast iron. I'd be afraid steel would gall. You can get continuous cast bar stock. Durabar is one company that makes it.
Mine has an oiler between each of the hold down bolts.
Hope you post your rebuild.
Greg

Any idea on the tensile strength needed on the material? I was thinking that 65k would be fine. I am having a heck of a time finding this stuff locally.

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benmychree

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#14
Ductile iron would be overkill, plain old cast iron is fine, 40,000 psi tensile.
 

madmodifier

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#15
That would be great benmychree if I could find it. It seems dura-bar is my option around here and even that is hard to find and very expensive. The two quotes I have gotten so far are more then I paid for the machine. Not sure what I am going to do now.
 

benmychree

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#16
Have you looked in McMaster Carr?
 
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f350ca

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#17
Wonder if you could salvage them out of an old lathe bed. Nothing else comes to mind that would be long enough. Maybe you could use thin strips of cast as wear bars with a steel cap to support them.

Greg
 

core-oil

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#19
The best option I can think off is to approach an iron foundry, and see if they will cast you a couple of bars, Ordinary soft grey iron is typically good machine tool gib strip material, May the fleas of a thousand camels infect the rear end of the idiot who took off the original gib strips, Remember to allow for machining allowance, (On the Bars not the idiots rear end!)
 

Silverbullet

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#20
Why not steel with brass wear plates on the moving areas. That's how I'd fix it . And I'd put at least three oil cups or make a pressure type oiler system. I love running tiny copper lines they do a real great job and look good .
 

core-oil

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#21
Silver Bullet,
You have given me another bright idea, Why not make nice steel gib plates Bolt down and inject Moglice underneath them, That is frequently done in machine tool building, It has good wear & accuracy properties and it would be a simple way out of the problem.
 

madmodifier

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#22
I could do Moglice or bond some turcite to steel gibs. Brass is another idea I have considered. Honestly the friction coefficient of mild steel an cast is not too terrible. I have found a wood lathe bed locally that might be a good doner for the gibs. At least half of them. The seller thinks the bed is 3/8" or 1/2" thick(waiting for conformation), 3" wide and 54" long. I could then pair that with 1/2" of steel. The gib plates for the table are 7/8" so that is about what I am shooting for.
 

madmodifier

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#23
Today's progress, degrease and dissemble. The weasel snot is strong with this one. I have found a few gears that could be remade but I think I should be able to get it running as is. This is assuming that the motor is any good. I ohmed it out and I do not think it has any dead shorts. I need to buy some wire and a plug and make up a whip to connect to the 3 phase.

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brino

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#24
Great progress! :encourage:
-brino
 

Scruffy

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#25
I have a square door 16 inch cinn. Back geared shaper. Built around 1905, I think.
Thanks ron
 

madmodifier

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#26
I have a square door 16 inch cinn. Back geared shaper. Built around 1905, I think.
Thanks ron
Do you have a couple pictures your could share?
 

Scruffy

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#27
Just tell what you want pics of and i’ll Take them. I have copies of some old manuals I can send you.
I emailed cinn. Shaper and they said they never made the machine I have. They lost their records in a fire around 1920 . Theirs a guy on metal working fun that has one about 50 serial numbers newer than mine. They never made it either.
Thanks scruffy ron
Look at the way the old fella convert it from a Lin shaft machine
 
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Scruffy

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#28
Here’s some pics I found
Thanks scruffy Ron
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#29
I could do Moglice or bond some turcite to steel gibs. Brass is another idea I have considered. Honestly the friction coefficient of mild steel an cast is not too terrible. I have found a wood lathe bed locally that might be a good doner for the gibs. At least half of them. The seller thinks the bed is 3/8" or 1/2" thick(waiting for conformation), 3" wide and 54" long. I could then pair that with 1/2" of steel. The gib plates for the table are 7/8" so that is about what I am shooting for.
Most of the older machine tools that had hold downs for things like this were made of cast iron. There's no reason in the world for not making them out of 1018 cold finish rectangular steel bar. Material needs to be reasonably straight, not necessarily surface plate straight, eyeball straight would work. Run it steel against cast iron. I wouldn't worry about getting fancy with brass or bronze wear pad or Moglice, or any other kind of non-metallic way bearing material. Just keep it well lubricated. Remember, this shaper will never have to work hard for rest of your life or it's life!

Ken

BTW: Nice find! I want a shaper. :cry:
 

madmodifier

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#30
Most of the older machine tools that had hold downs for things like this were made of cast iron. There's no reason in the world for not making them out of 1018 cold finish rectangular steel bar. Material needs to be reasonably straight, not necessarily surface plate straight, eyeball straight would work. Run it steel against cast iron. I wouldn't worry about getting fancy with brass or bronze wear pad or Moglice, or any other kind of non-metallic way bearing material. Just keep it well lubricated. Remember, this shaper will never have to work hard for rest of your life or it's life!

Ken

BTW: Nice find! I want a shaper. :cry:
Thanks for that info! I did end up ordering grey (cast) iron this week. Little more then steel but I need scraping practice anyways :)
 
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