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mukymuk

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#1
Hi guys. I recently bought a hydrashift 10 and while moving it into my garage it fell over and broke some hand wheels and levers.

I want to try to repair the damage and could sure use some guidance. I'm new to the hobby and have read/watched a lot but have no real practical experience.

Here's a picture of how it landed:
2016-10-19 11.17.14.jpg

The carriage hand wheel looks like it contacted first. The casting fractured, but I have all the pieces and they all fit together well. Was wondering if it could be salvaged--brazed or otherwise rejoined? I'd like to get this fixed first as its the only show-stopper than I'm aware of right now.

2016-10-26 11.41.21.jpg 2016-10-26 11.49.50.jpg

I can see that there is a pin through the wheel, but it's not clear to me how to remove it so I can get wheel off.
2016-12-16 23.33.36.jpg 2016-12-16 23.04.04.jpg
The cross feed handwheel was pretty much destroyed--I have some of it but I have no idea where the knob went and I'm missing some of the casting. The dial looks undamaged, but the screw is bent at the very end where the handwheel attaches. The rest of the screw seems ok as I can move the cross slide through it's entire range with no problems.
2016-10-22 12.29.52.jpg
As with the cross slide wheel, I'm not sure how to get the dial off to get at the screw. I can see what looks like some kind of pin.
2016-10-22 12.30.00.jpg

The next couple of issues don't seem like a big deal, but I wanted to include them just in case there's more to it than I think.

Lever bent upward a bit:
2016-10-26 11.41.42.jpg

End knob completely destroyed but lever seems to work: 2016-10-22 12.24.55.jpg

Anyway, that's about it. Would greatly appreciate any pointers.

Thanks,
Shawn
 

Eddyde

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#2
Ouch! Hope no one was hurt.
I would start hunting around on eBay for parts, you might be able to fit hand wheels from other lathes by re-boring or adding a bushing.
 

FOMOGO

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#3
Oops. Not that hard to do, very top heavy. That first wheel might be a good candidate for some epoxy. Does the pin have a slit in it, does it go all the way thru? It could be the often found rounded out hex set screw. Someone with the same machine will probably be along soon to clear it up. Welcome to the forum. Mike
 

Bob Korves

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#4
That looks like it is probably a taper pin. If so, one end will be slightly bigger in diameter than the other. Hit the small end using a punch that fits it. Make damned sure you are hitting it on the small end and that it is a tapered pin! If it does not come out after a few solid smacks, stand back and regroup...
 
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mukymuk

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#5
Hey thanks for the advice guys.

I gave the pin a good whack and it didn't budge. I checked the manual and it is a tapered pin, and I'm pretty sure I'm on the small side of it, but it's in there real good.

I like the epoxy idea. I think that will work just fine and maybe I won't have to remove the wheel to do it. That's my plan for now.

Yeah, I know there's a few here with this lathe, so I'll wait for them to chime in.

Thanks again, guys.
 

Plum Creek

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#6
Shawn
I'm sorry to see that!!! They ARE very top heavy machines!!
If you have it back up and on its feet, take a deep breath, relax and try not to get in a hurry.
You might be lucky in a way that the hand wheel took the hit and crumpled absorbing a lot of the energy. It can be brazed back together or a variety of other remedies including replacing it with a used wheel.
Before you do any disassembly on the carriage wheel you might clean the face, put an indicator on it and check the runout. Also check for binding while turning it.

From your pics of the pin, I would guess the one on the left is the big end and the right is the small end. I would measure them to be sure.
It appears that small end may have been bradded. File (or grind if your comfortable) until its flush. Then tap lightly using an appropriate size punch.

The cross slide screw is quite soft. I might consider trying to correct that bend with a piece of snug fitting pipe. Again set up an indicator, mark the high spot and note the deviation. Go slowly, bending it just a little bit at a time then re-indicate. Its soft and bends easily.
If you need to dissemble it, remove the two allen screws facing outward. The part they hold is screwed onto the shaft. If its not too bent it should unscrew (CCW) fairly easily. The pin in the knurled area does not have to be removed. Did I mention that the cross feed shaft is soft.......One other tidbit of information. The hole for the tapered pin may not be centered on the shaft. They seem to be hand drilled so even though you find an exact replacement handle, the pin may not fit without modifying the hole.

Keep us updated and welcome aboard!
 

mukymuk

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#7
Hi all,

I haven't indicated it for runout yet, but I did run the carriage down the full length and starts to bind about halfway between the headstock and the end. It moves fairly easily close to the head. It is a bit difficult to turn without a proper wheel, but I think it's quite a bit harder than it should be.

Is it possible I knocked the ways out of parallel?

Plum, you mentioned cleaning the face and checking for runout. Can you give a little more detail on what your talking about?
 

Eddyde

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#8
With a hit like that its possible to have damaged the ways. if its just a dent it may be possible to fix but if they are bent in some way, you might have a real problem. It is also possible to have bent the leadscrew, which could be straightened or replaced.
 

Plum Creek

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#9
Shawn
Did you operate or get a demo on the machine when you purchased it? Under power or not? Did you feel any binding when operating the carriage by hand?
These are pretty well built machines, I would be really surprised if there were any issues with the ways not being parallel but I suppose its possible.
The pic of it on its side shows the carriage about halfway, Is that where the binding starts?
In regards to indicating the face. I was trying to get a feel for whether or not the carriage hand wheel pinion was bent. In reality indicating the face is inconclusive at best. The parts are not precision ground or machined and end play cannot be controlled, but thats where I would start. The paint should be removed. I use the orange stripper from H Depot and leave it on for 24 hours or more. It seems to work pretty well and doesn't require a lot of abrasion to get a clean surface. Once the surface is clean set up an indicator (base)on the carriage since it will move when you turn the wheel, and the measurement pin on the face. start at the outer edge of the flat, make a rotation and note the high spot with a marker and note the amount of deviation. Move the pin inward about a third of the way towards the shaft and repeat. Also indicate the end of the shaft. The Metrology forum is a good reference for general measurement setups if you need help, or pm me. (Im new too though.)

Since these repairs are not Cincinnati specific you might pose the evaluation questions in the Questions and Answers or restoration forum. There are far more experienced members here than I, and they are very helpful.
 

mukymuk

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#10
No unfortunately I don't know how well the carriage moved before I dropped it. I did see it under power but I didn't operate it.

It does seem to tighten up approximately where the impact was, but it stays tight even when I move the carriage well beyond that point. I know old lathes tend to wear near the head and less toward the tailstock. That could be what I'm seeing and without any experience to draw on, I'm left scratching my head.

For now I think I'll just fix what I know is wrong and go from there. I bought the lathe so I'd have something new to learn and tinker with. This isn't exactly what I had in mind, but might as well play the hand I was dealt.

Thanks for the advice!
 

Plum Creek

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#11
I like your spirit.
My concerns basically center around the carriage drive system and the clutch. So while you work on indicating or removing the carriage wheel, you might try and operate the clutch. From my understanding the clutch system shouldn't have be adversely affected when the clutch lever impacted. On a tip over it does engage rather forcefully and have a lot of pressure on the linkage. Your lever isn't bent nearly as badly as some Ive seen pics of but you need to check it. At this point it doesn't need power on it just cycle it. when it engages (handle up)it should have a kind of "snick" sound and the handle should stay in the up position.
 

Plum Creek

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#12
Two more things to check. On the top right side of the carriage on the flat, there should be a square headed bolt. Its the carriage clamp. If its tight loosen it. If the carriage is still binding look underneath the front lip of the bed and inspect the rack for damage,
 

mukymuk

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#13
Carriage clamp! Haha, moves fine now.

Clutch acts like it's ok. snaps in and out and the linkage looks fine. It's put together in such a way that it seems unlikely that anything other than the lever could be damaged.

Indicated the carriage wheel and shaft and it's all spot on. Got the taper pin out and the base of the wheel off. Test fit all the pieces and they go together pretty well. I'm thinking about stripping the paint, and rejoining the pieces with some jb weld. Then sand and paint.

The crosslide wheel is missing a piece of cast and the knob. It' looks simple enough and I'm thinking of making a new one from steel on the mill. Use a bolt for the knob until I can turn a new one.

The crosslide shaft looks like it's bent only at the very end where the wheel mounts. It moves just fine. I think I can straighten it out like you mentioned.

Things are looking up!
 

Plum Creek

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#14
Great News!
Keep us posted on your progress..
Howard
 
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#15
Something to keep in mind for the future, Throw out those machinery skates. They are totally worthless in moving machinery in the home shop. Mount the lathe on a couple of 2 x 8's or 2 x 10's with some 1/2" lag screws. Use some 1/2" or 3/4" pipe as rollers under the two by lumber and a pinch bar to move the lathe around on. As far as that goes, do this for any machine you intend to move! Now, you're learning machinery repair and maintenance the unintentionally way. On the bent cross feed screw, may have to stub in a new piece of shaft to fix the bent piece. Ken
 

mukymuk

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#16
Yeah, the skates were worse than worthless.
 

jmhoying

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#17
Wow, that had to be sickening. Hopefully everything will work out for you. I have a 10 x 36" hydrashift if you happen to need any measurements or photos of knobs/handles.
Jack
lathe50.jpg
 

mukymuk

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#18
Nice looking machine!

I got mine running a few days ago and turned a new power feed lever--not perfect but it will serve for awhile. I still need to put the carriage wheel back together--tried jb-weld but I didn't get good results. I think I'm going to build a jig and braze the pieces back together. The crosside wheel handle looks like something I can mill but I'll do that last as the crosslide is functional. The biggest annoyance right now is the carriage wheel.

One thing you might could help me with--it's not clear to me how to disassemble the crosslide wheel and scale so I can get at the screw. Any ideas?
 

jmhoying

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#19
Nice looking machine!

I got mine running a few days ago and turned a new power feed lever--not perfect but it will serve for awhile. I still need to put the carriage wheel back together--tried jb-weld but I didn't get good results. I think I'm going to build a jig and braze the pieces back together. The crosside wheel handle looks like something I can mill but I'll do that last as the crosslide is functional. The biggest annoyance right now is the carriage wheel.

One thing you might could help me with--it's not clear to me how to disassemble the crosslide wheel and scale so I can get at the screw. Any ideas?
It's been 6 months since I had mine apart, but I did have it completely dissembled. If I remember correctly, there is a tension spring that holds the dial in place. I remember that it was tricky to take on and off, but I did it a couple times. I think you pull out on the dial and press the spring in with a small screwdriver or similar. If it wasn't so cold out, I'd go out and check it now. I know this isn't a big help, but hopefully this will lead you in the right direction. cross-slide.jpg
Jack
 

mukymuk

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#20
Thanks Jack, that helps. Another couple of questions:

The headstock seems to be running fine with one exception--it will make a fairly loud squealing noise when I brake the spindle. No noise when it's in gear. It seems like the squealing happens just after the hydraulics finish the shifting--maybe 2-3 seconds after I brake the spindle.

The squealing goes away after about 5-10 minutes of running the lathe. Any idea what might be going on here?

I want to pop the cover off the headstock and have a look inside, but I'm having trouble getting it off. I've removed all the bolts on the top of the cover, but even so it won't budge. Are there other bolts I need to remove?

On another topic, I've started to make a plan of attack on the power feed lever. I'm going to try to turn the internal parts for another one and use the existing handle and spring.

2017-01-04 23.05.57.jpg
 

jmhoying

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#21
Thanks Jack, that helps. Another couple of questions:

The headstock seems to be running fine with one exception--it will make a fairly loud squealing noise when I brake the spindle. No noise when it's in gear. It seems like the squealing happens just after the hydraulics finish the shifting--maybe 2-3 seconds after I brake the spindle.

The squealing goes away after about 5-10 minutes of running the lathe. Any idea what might be going on here?

I want to pop the cover off the headstock and have a look inside, but I'm having trouble getting it off. I've removed all the bolts on the top of the cover, but even so it won't budge. Are there other bolts I need to remove?

On another topic, I've started to make a plan of attack on the power feed lever. I'm going to try to turn the internal parts for another one and use the existing handle and spring.
I didn't take the top off of my headstock. I drained/replaced the oil but didn't go inside. I do have a bit of noise from the hydraulic pump when starting up the machine, but it goes away in a minute or so.

Looks like your feed lever project should be fairly easy to do.

Jack
 

Plum Creek

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#22
I have the same squealing, mostly in the winter. I believe it to be a hydraulic issue between the two pumps. If there is oil flowing in the front sight glass I wouldn't worry about it.
The top may have sealant between the surfaces. They frequently leak.
Have you removed the two allen head screws from the face of the nut and unscrewed it? If so the dial should easily slide right off.
 

mukymuk

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#23
Well, it's a slow process but it's moving forward. I turned a new pin for the power feed lever. Pretty happy with how it came out--it's the first thing I've ever made with a lathe.

2017-01-18 00.13.25.jpg

Brazed the carriage wheel back together. Not pretty, but it turns true. It looks like getting it back on the shaft is going to require taking the carriage apart though.

2017-01-20 21.51.59.jpg

Getting it jigged was most of the work:
2017-01-18 19.59.09.jpg
 

jmhoying

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#24
Well, it's a slow process but it's moving forward. I turned a new pin for the power feed lever. Pretty happy with how it came out--it's the first thing I've ever made with a lathe.

View attachment 224440

Brazed the carriage wheel back together. Not pretty, but it turns true. It looks like getting it back on the shaft is going to require taking the carriage apart though.

View attachment 224441

Getting it jigged was most of the work:
View attachment 224442
Both parts look good! A little Bondo and paint and the wheel will look just fine.
 

Plum Creek

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#25
I agree both parts look good. Nice job.
If your having problems getting the carriage wheel back on you might try dry icing the shaft and heating the hand wheel.
Just spitballing here, but I noticed on the parts diagram there is a removable plug behind the pinion. You might be able to remove the plug, push the pinion forward, cut a pin to fit between the pinion face and the bed. If you take the carriage apart take some pics and share with us.
 

mukymuk

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#26
I didn't notice the plug. I ended up taking the carriage apart. Wheel went back on without too much drama. I wish I had thought to snap some pics--I usually do. I was amazed at how good everything looked inside the carriage. No signs of any damage or 50 odd years of use.

The crosslide dial is buggered to the point that I can't take it apart without breaking it. It turns well enough and the brake mechanism works so I think I'm just going to put a handle on it and call it done for now. That leaves the power feed/threading handle assembly and she'll be back in good working order.

I do want to figure out how to get the head cover off so I can have a look inside--I'd like to see if I can figure out what's up with the whining noise. I think the previous owner used some sort of liquid gasket that effectively glued the cover down.

Quick question--the lathe has 6 feet--4 under the headstock and 2 under the tailstock. It's missing the two under the headstock nearest the bed. Making new feet is on my todo list, but should I do that sooner than later--is it important?
 

Plum Creek

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#27
Great sounds like your making progress..
A heat gun will sometimes work on loosening gasket material.
It it were mine, replacing the missing feet and leveling it would be a very high priority.
 

cathead

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#28
Regarding the two missing head stock supports, I would have that high on the priority list as you will
likely need them to level the machine. The supports are there for a reason.
 

Plum Creek

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#29
You might try loosening the end cover and moving it out slightly just to make sure the whining noise isn't the pulley rubbing on the cover. When I got mine there was no preload on the D shaft bearing. It would displace toward the cover and rub, when there was no load on it. It still has the Hydrashift whine though. If you listen to videos of Hydrashifts running you will probably notice that most of them have a whine.
This is purely speculation on my part but, I believe it is the governor pump making the noise. According to the local hydraulic shop the governor pump is actually a hydraulic motor being used as a pump. Nothing wrong with that, it works very well, just wasn't engineered to be a pump.
In regards to the your question about the missing feet/supports. I just completed turning a 2' piece of 80 mm stock which was roughly .075 out of round. That small amount even when turning slowly (320) was causing the entire lathe to vibrate. Not a lot but I could feel it with my hand on the tailstock. Now I wish there were more than just 6 supports. I am considering methods of anchoring the supports to the concrete.
 

jmhoying

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#30
Great sounds like your making progress..
A heat gun will sometimes work on loosening gasket material.
It it were mine, replacing the missing feet and leveling it would be a very high priority.
If you look at the photos of my Hydrashift , I made aluminum feet on the lathe to raise it 2". Made for a very nice working height.
lathe040.jpg lathe52.jpg lathe50.jpg
 
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