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New Lathe User - Just Bought An Atlas MK2 6x18

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francist

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#61
I made a pretty simple tool for those from an old power hacksaw blade, but an old screwdriver or small knife would work too. File or grind to fit.

-frank

image.jpeg image.jpeg
 

wa5cab

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#62
First, the special nuts are nuts, not screws. Second, yes, they are OEM. And are far from being unique to the Atlas machines. They aren't perhaps as common on new equipment today as they once were. But if you work on older equipment including both machine tools and military grade electronics, you will run into them in various sizes.

Buying a new tool today that fits is unlikely. But making one is simple. Measure the OD of the nut. Unless you already have one that you just haven't thrown away, buy the cheapest set of 6-point long-pattern 1/4" square-drive sockets that you can find. Measure the OD's for one that is about the same OD as the nut. Mill (or accurately grind and file) both sides of the open end, leaving two tangs sticking out. The tangs need to be fairly close to being on a diameter of the socket, and centered in two opposite thickest parts of the socket. The ID should be a slip fit over the screw that the nut fits. And the tangs need to fit the slots in the nut. I've made about half a dozen of them over the years, in different sizes up to about 3/4" diameter.

You can also make a tool from a screwdriver that fits the slot in the nut when it is off of the machine by running an end mill the same diameter as the screw across the end of the screw driver blade. But the tool made from the socket is less likely to slip and damage the nut.
 

David S

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#63
On my 618 I took a piece of flat metal of the width to fit the OD of the nut and filed a notch in the centre to clear the screw. You could also sacrifice an old cheap screwdriver and cut the notch in the blade.

David
 

Skowinski

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#64
Thanks everyone, a home made tool it is then. :encourage:
 

wa5cab

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#65
Well, the notched screwdriver is certainly quicker than a copy of the OEM tool. But one of the problems with it is that it only works if the screw never protrudes out of the nut. The ones made from a 6-point socket don't have that problem.
 

Skowinski

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#66
I probably should dig around some more in these drawers in the cabinet this lathe came mounted on. Could be a tool buried in there somewhere. There's stuff I still haven't figured out what it is. Some odd custom jigs etc, and parts I don't recognize (not surprising since I'm such a noob...).
 

Skowinski

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#67
So, it appears I've got most of what's needed to use collets with this lathe. But, I'm missing the spindle thread protector and a spacer that goes on the drawbar. It's too long without that and won't tighten a collet in the spindle. I think I'll make one and was wondering if anyone's got one of these that they could provide me with the dimensions of?

Looks like MyMachineShop.net sells complete sets and they appear to call this thing a "gear door spacer".

https://www.mymachineshop.net/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=10001
 

westsailpat

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#68
What parts do you have so far Skowinski ? I'm starting to collect parts for mine too , so far I have a collet set (mt2) got it here https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Morse-Ta...440089?hash=item1e9944c619:g:gMoAAOSw~RVaME0m I got this little hand wheel https://www.ebay.com/itm/1Pc-3-Electroplating-Handwheel-OD-69mm-Machinist-Cast-Iron-Tailstock-Hand-Wheel/152385218779?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649 so all I have to do now is make the spacer and get some threaded stock . Only bummer with using a mt 2 collet in the spindle is the collet sticks out about .5 past the spindle . I don't think it's a deal killer we are not taking heavy cuts but collets are machinable so you could trim some back if it's a problem . The thing they are calling a gear door spacer is the spacer that goes at the opposite of the collet , you can make that easy . Plus you don't really need a hand wheel , just get a long enough bolt make the spacer and use a wrench to do the tighten up . I have seen real Atlas collet set ups that use the nose piece I think that set up is the best . It's here they call it the draw in collet chuck attachment http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas-6-inch-lathe-accessories/ this set up is a true collet set up where you also still have a thru spindle capability .
 

Skowinski

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#69
Thanks, what I have appears to be the "holding collet set" shown on the 6" lathe accessories page you linked, minus the collar/spacer. There's also a set shown on the printed accessories catalog that came with this lathe, and it shows that same handwheel with the spacer and a "milling cutter holder" which is the MT2 collar with a set screw, which I have, but no spacer. I've made some measurements and will fabricate a spacer, should be an easy enough project. Should be able to use this collet set I have then.
 

wa5cab

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#70
With either a draw bar (for 2MT collets and the Atlas M6-945 Cutter Holder) or a draw tube (for the Atlas M6-751 collets), you want to use about half of the available threads at the tightened point. To determine the required length of the spacer, first determine the number of threads available on or in the collets. With the M6-751, the threads are on the outside of the collet so you just count them. With the other two, slide the collet or holder into the spindle until the taper stops it. Slide the drawbar into the left end of the spindle up against the threads in the end of the collet. Rotate the handwheel CCW and locate the thread start. Then start turning it CW, counting the number of turns until the drawbar bottoms out on the last thread. Multiply the number of threads by about 0.45 and round up. Screw the tube or bar onto or into the collet the calculated number of turns. Pull back lightly on the handwheel and measure the distance between the left end of the spindle and the right end of the handwheel hub. This is the effective length that you need for the spacer.

All of the commercial spacers thst I have seen sold have the right end tapered at about 60 deg. This works (because the left end of the spindle is slightly countersunk and it's quicker and cheaper to machine. But it isn't very convenient to use as it won't stay centered up with the spindle bore on its own until it is almost tight. So make the spacer about 3/16" longer than calculated and turn the right end down to about 17/32" for a distance of 3/16". This will stay centered making it easier to start the draw bar or tube threads onto or into the collet or holder without danger of cross-threading.
 

Skowinski

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#71
Thanks for the detailed reply wa5cab! I calculated the length of the spacer in a very rough manner by comparison to your outline, and came up with 22 mm. I'll see how close I may have gotten it.

edit: using wa5cab's method I get 26 mm for the spacer length

I noticed a picture of one of these spacer showed the end tapered to fit the spindle. The simple stepped design you suggest would be easier to machine and sounds like it would certainly work.

:eagerness:
 
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wa5cab

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#72
Skowinski,

The fact that it's easier to machine is just a fringe benefit. It also works much better. When you get ready to take a part out of the collet, common practice is to loosen the draw bar or tube about two turns and if the collet doesn't self-release, hit the hand wheel with the palm of your had. With the tapered-nose spacer, the hand wheel will droop. With a draw tube, the droop isn't too bad as the tube is almost as large as the spindle bore. But with a draw bar, in a 10" or 12" the droop is a little over 3/16" and when you hit the hand wheel to free the collet, the force is at an angle to the collet axis. With the stepped spacer, everything remains centered on the spindle axis without having to use both hands (one to hold the spacer in the spindle countersink).
 

Skowinski

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#73
Finally finished up making the drawbar spacer, out of aluminum for a first pass, and maybe that's all that's needed. I made a few mistakes along the way, but nothing that caused the spacer to be non-functional. This was actually the first part I designed and produced, so I'm pretty happy about that (I know, it's dead simple, but I'm an absolute beginner at this). I learned a lot along the way, even with this simple design, turning, facing, boring and parting - and it works as intended! :grin:

i-9PpD8s9-M.jpg

i-s44fDDT-M.jpg

i-TMfhhtD-M.jpg
 

westsailpat

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#74
Awesome job Skowinski , the only thing I would do is make a steel washer for it . I forget what collet system are you using , do you have the MT2 collet nose or are you using MT2 collets ? Mark .
 

Skowinski

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#75
Thanks westsailpat. Steel washer would go between the hand wheel and the spacer I presume?

I'm using MT2 collets that fit directly in the end of the spindle.
 

westsailpat

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#77
The washer would go in between the spacer and the end of the lathe . I would make the OD the OD of the spacer and the ID to slip over the part of the spacer that goes into the lathe . It would act the same as a washer under a bolt . Actually one in between the wheel and the spacer is a good idea too . Skowiniski , when you put the collet in the lathe how much does it stick out past the spindle ? Mine sticks out about 3/8 .
 

westsailpat

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#79
Same here , how awesome it would have been to increase the dia . of the spindle so the collet could go back all the way . Well I'm not going to stress about it . I won't be taking big cuts , the main thing is run out . On the other hand collets are not that hard and can be machined for a better fit , but I really wouldn't think it would be worth it .
 

amuller

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#80
I've had a "Mark 1" for about fifty years. I haven't run it a lot of hours but the only think that's ever worn out is the lead screw half-nuts. I've never been able part off with it--It's just not rigid enough, or my technique is defective. So I have always made a starting groove and done the cutting with a hacksaw. No problems with deterioration of the Zamac handwheels and gears. Nice little lathe. Happens that I also have a 7" mini-lathe of the common Chinese sort. Aside from obviously being different lengths, I'd say they both have their pros and cons.
 
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westsailpat

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#81
Hi amuller , I have a MK1 also . What tool holder system are you using ? Early on , for me it became clear that the lantern was not worth the "vintageness" , I bought the OXA tool post and some holders . It was like I had a hole new machine , the parting holder is pretty good my blade is about .030 . I'm with you some stuff I just don't try to part like a large dia. of CR 1018 . I know this is not correct but this is how I received my machine , the spindle bushings had been split and that lets you "adjust " . When I part something that is giving me problems I do the tighten up , finish up and then back off . I machined some cast Nylon the other day , it was better than Alu . . Mark .
 

amuller

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#82
Hi amuller , I have a MK1 also . What tool holder system are you using ? Early on , for me it became clear that the lantern was not worth the "vintageness" , I bought the OXA tool post and some holders . It was like I had a hole new machine , the parting holder is pretty good my blade is about .030 . I'm with you some stuff I just don't try to part like a large dia. of CR 1018 . I know this is not correct but this is how I received my machine , the spindle bushings had been split and that lets you "adjust " . When I part something that is giving me problems I do the tighten up , finish up and then back off . I machined some cast Nylon the other day , it was better than Alu . . Mark .
Hi Mark. I've only every used the lantern tool post I got with it. Sometime I will try a modern style. Not sure what you mean by spindle bushings. Mine has tapered roller bearings on the spindle. Yr's has a different setup?

Alan
 

Skowinski

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#83
I did my first parting operation last week, aluminum about 1 inch diameter with a ~1/2" bore in it. OXA QCTP and forget the dimension of the parting blade, but it was the wider one available when I ordered. I also have changed out the plastic gibs to brass, no idea if that helps a lot, or not. I made 100% sure the blade was perpendicular to the work piece, kept some lubricant on it, and went slowly. Worked fine. I knew I was pushing the tool in too fast when it chattered.
 

westsailpat

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#84
Hey Allen , Robert correct me if I'm wrong . Allen you have a 618 MK1 , I have a earlier MK1 that has the bushing head stock . Skowinski has the MK2 . When I first got my machine running I was using the lantern tool post , It was obvious it wasn't working as I could see the tool deflect . The main problem on mine was the dish collar that the seesaw wedge and tool holder sits on had become not flat also the top of the compound was not flat and even . To get the compound flat was easy , I just wrapped various grits of paper around a 123 block and got it perfect . Next I got the OXA QCTP , one thing about the OXA is you can use a 3/8 tool my lantern tool holders would only take 3/16 ! Allen here is some history about our machines .
http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman6inchmk1/
 

wa5cab

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#85
That's correct except for one thing. The sleeve bearing 101.07301 sold by Sears from the late 30's until 1957 and the Atlas 618 sold by Atlas from the late 30's until 1972 are contemporaries, not early and late versions. No one knows why Sears insisted upon the sleeve bearings until 1957. The other difference is the spindle nose threads. It is unfortunate that Sears and Atlas didn't agree to use the same thread pitch until 1957.
 
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