New To Forum And A 3 In 1

apox97

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Hello good people! I have been coming to the forum for a a few days now looking for some troubleshooting tips and I had to sign up. I own a force international at-300-2 3 in 1 lathe/mill/drill. Its one of those machine made by a bunch of manufacturers. This machine is older but a littler beefier then the new ones available having MT4/MT3 tapers and 3/4 HP with auto feed metric and standard threading.

Like a lot of these machines it appears the POs neglected it, and probably didn't even know what an oil button was. I started dismantling it and I am stuck and cant go any further. That's not the end of the world though because I think I have made it far enough to clean bearings and the good stuff.

My question is, how do I clean and reoil, the gunk in the head stock gears and bearings had the consistency of wet brown sugar. I've found some inexpensive SAE 30 non detergent oil at walmart, the manual says SAE 20 non detergent so I figure it should be ok?

I've added some pictures below. It's just really gunky in there (someone used a heavy lubricant? grease?), luckily the lathe moved and sounded like it was brand new but when I switched over to the mill, it sounded pretty laboured. I've picked and scraped out a lot of the old sludge with little tools but there is still a lot in there. I cant seem to get it apart any further and I know there are two tapered roller bearings in there as well, what to do!?

Thank you!
Rob

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dieselshadow

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Welcome!

If you run it unloaded, I would use some diesel fuel or kerosene to flush out the goo. Run it for a bit in all gears to insure a good circulation, rinse and repeat as needed. :aok:
 

apox97

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its belt driven, so to get where I am disassembled it cannot be run, I could hand turn it at best? should I cover up the headstock gear area and run the kerosene through it? wondering if I could use something less harsh as this is in my attached garage with the wife's SUV haha. What about WD40 spray? it would certainly help me get in the good spots with a bit of force, then reoiling should replace it easily?

Thank you
 
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wa5cab

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I agree, except that although a little more expensive than #2 diesel, I would use what may be described as Varsol, Stoddard Solvents, Mineral Oil, and others. It's probably less expensive than kerosene these days and unlike diesel, has no odor. Get a trigger accuated spray bottle left over from most anything, clean it out and use that to wash down the "guts" and wash out particulates that hand tools will leave behind. Then repeat with a trigger operated oil can.

For SAE 20 ND in most parts of the country these days, look for ISO 68 viscosity oil. Enco and probably others carry Mobil Heavy Medium Circulating Oil which is what I've been using since SAE 20 ND mostly disappeared. Do not use multi-grade motor oils from the nearest auto parts store as although 20W50 would work fine as a lubricant, all of them also contain water scavenging additives which if left to sit on bare machined surfaces will cause surface rust to form in most parts of the country. Especially if your shop is not heated and cooled 24/7/365.

Unfortunately, I don't know anything about your specific machine other than to say it would appear to be a step or two above most 3-In-1's. So I can't help with how to disassemble it further.

EDIT: WD-40 in bulk would be fine, as it is mostly kerosene. Just expensive.
 

apox97

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This seems to be all I can get locally in a manageable size.
http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/motomaster-aw68-hydraulic-oil-5l-0280210p.html#srp

I've been calling and researching for days. Everything is 5 Gal and up
I've also looked high and low for the Mobil DTE everyone recommends but again 5 Gal and up. Canada really REALLY blows for getting absolutely anything that your average soccer mom wouldn't slide into her cart.
 

apox97

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More then half way assembled now, cleaned out all the gunk with spray bottle varsol, oiled in the main belt drive bearing (the biggest one) and just oiled down into the taper bearings. The oil I am replacing the old stuff with seems thinner, it's ISO 68 hydraulic oil, but oil is better then no oil right?

Everything seems to spin nicely by hand, engaging the mill is easier and it spins nicely as well. The actual mill head isn't on its just lifted off the column. I used Lucas high speed bearing grease in the two mill drive shaft bearings as they are beyond the splashing effect of the gear box and I figure oil just won't last.

What's left is to liquid gasket the gear box, fit the mill head, reinstall the belts and adjust motor. Won't be tomorrow though so Tuesday!
 
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Chipper5783

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I have been using the Shell Telus product line in my machines. It is equivalent to the Mobil DTE product and is available in ISO 32, 46, 68 (and perhaps several other weights). You can get 4 liter jugs at UFA. Regards, David
 

wa5cab

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AP,

The AW68 hydraulic oil should work fine. I can't think of any reason why any company would put water scavenging additives into hydraulic oil.

If there is no way in which to oil the mill drive shaft bearings once everything is reassembled, then grease is your only option.
 

apox97

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AP,

The AW68 hydraulic oil should work fine. I can't think of any reason why any company would put water scavenging additives into hydraulic oil.

If there is no way in which to oil the mill drive shaft bearings once everything is reassembled, then grease is your only option.
it appears that way, the gunk I pulled out was like an orangeish opaque goop more along the lines of grease.
 

P T Schram

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Any oil is better than none. As for the mill, there are a number of EP greases that would likely be suitable. Might try some sort of CV joint grease, or mix up some bearing grease and 90 wt so you'll have something that will flow slightly. Are the mill bearing immersed on the grease or is it a splash sort of arrangement?

As for Enco, Enco no longer exists. I'm saddened after having been a loyal customer for near 40 years.
 

apox97

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I'm no engineer but judging by the way the mill drive shaft looks I would say at most a very small bit of splash would hit the bottom bearing. It wouldn't hit the top bearing being Atleast 12" above the bottom bearing. If you oiled it, it would drip down to the bottom bearing instantly.. Oil wouldn't hold in that bearing at all.

Also I've looked at the parts diagram of a smithy 1220 and its virtually identical. I have used it to help assembly my unit. That may help people visually with what I'm describing.
 

P T Schram

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I'm no engineer but judging by the way the mill drive shaft looks I would say at most a very small bit of splash would hit the bottom bearing. It wouldn't hit the top bearing being Atleast 12" above the bottom bearing. If you oiled it, it would drip down to the bottom bearing instantly.. Oil wouldn't hold in that bearing at all.

Also I've looked at the parts diagram of a smithy 1220 and its virtually identical. I have used it to help assembly my unit. That may help people visually with what I'm describing.
Is there a seal beneath the bearing to retain the oil?
 

apox97

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no oil seals at all, even in the parts diagram for the smithy there are no oil seals in this section and I don't see any seals on the machine anywhere actually. This drive shaft section is also not listed in any of the regular lubrication maintenance sections of the manual. So I'm going with a good high speed bearing grease. I tried it last night and it runs smooth. I can't see how it would be any different then bearings in a motorcycle, the seals are just to keep dirt and water out on a bike. Now on a lathe, it's enclosed and not traveling down the highway so I'd say the grease is pretty safe in there for a very long time haha.
 

apox97

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no oil seals at all, even in the parts diagram for the smithy there are no oil seals in this section and I don't see any seals on the machine anywhere actually. This drive shaft section is also not listed in any of the regular lubrication maintenance sections of the manual. So I'm going with a good high speed bearing grease. I tried it last night and it runs smooth. I can't see how it would be any different then bearings in a motorcycle, the seals are just to keep dirt and water out on a bike. Now on a lathe, it's enclosed and not traveling down the highway so I'd say the grease is pretty safe in there for a very long time haha.
I know im quoting myself... haha. Here are some photos that show the lack of oil seals. A seal is not described at all in the parts list either.smithy knock off.jpg Smithy diagram.jpg
 

apox97

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Posted a video of it running. Sorry the video is sideways! Machine sounds fantastic though. rebuilt (mostly) and found the right size belts at Auto value for cheap :D
 

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