New to me 5904

Tenpounder

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So I picked up a 5904. I've been looking for the 24 inch model for a few years and patience has paid off. It needs a good general look over and new belts. Ways look great for its age. Any body ever swap these 3ph units to 1ph? This unit has a 1.5 hp 3ph motor with a Baldor adjustable speed drive box on it. My only idea for it being there is to soft start the 3ph motor...??? Then again it has a potentiometer wired to the factory variable speed control. Any ideas how this all works?
The lathe came with taper attachment, tail stock, collet closer, a beat up chuck and a quick change tool post I have never seen before but no wrenches/ spindle spanner. 00P0P_cL4daWtnE2k_1200x900.jpg20200228_144724.jpg
 
Congrats, that looks like a great machine. It also looks like a candidate for a vfd. It would be reasonably cheap to add a variable frequency drive that converts single phase into three phase for your motor. It can also take care of variable speed. I'm not saying it's the only way to go, but that you should look into and consider it. A lot of us are swapping out our single phase motors for three phase motors coupled with vfd. You appear to be halfway there already. Have fun, and good luck.
 
From reading what is and noting what isn't printed on the front panel of the Baldor Variable Speed Drive, my guess is that the machine already has an industrial grade VFD installed. It just runs off of 3-phase instead of single phase. If I were you, I would try to contact Baldor first or if they were driven belly up by the chinese at least get the maintenance manual on the thing. It is probably possible to convert it to single phase as the text mentions an inverter which probably runs off of either 250 or 500 VDC. If that is correct, all that you would need to convert would be the DC power supply. How expensive that would be would mainly depend upon whether they used three single phase transformers or a true 3-phase unit.
 
From reading what is and noting what isn't printed on the front panel of the Baldor Variable Speed Drive, my guess is that the machine already has an industrial grade VFD installed. It just runs off of 3-phase instead of single phase. If I were you, I would try to contact Baldor first or if they were driven belly up by the chinese at least get the maintenance manual on the thing. It is probably possible to convert it to single phase as the text mentions an inverter which probably runs off of either 250 or 500 VDC. If that is correct, all that you would need to convert would be the DC power supply. How expensive that would be would mainly depend upon whether they used three single phase transformers or a true 3-phase unit.

This is great and mind blowing. Thank you! So let me fully digest this.... After reading this, reading a few articles, and watching some informative Eaton training videos. I can run the installed, old as dirt 1.5hp, 3ph, Peerless motor off a single phase input VFD?
The lathe currently is all set up original, sheaves and belts for variable speed of the spindle. Wouldn't it be counter intuitive to run the motor also at variable speed? From the reading I've done, this would save on power consumption.
Let me step back.... lathe original set up would have been this... Start lathe. Motor running constant speed. Turning the variable speed dial handle changes the sheave pitch thus changing speed of the spindle but not changing motor speed. Correct?
Now enter this Baldor VFD..... Start motor. Motor running "X" speed. Turn the variable speed dial handle (which has a potentiometer mounted under it wire to the VFD) changes the sheave pitch thus changing speed of the spindle but also the speed of the motor... Won't those combined cause inaccurate speeds?
Would I have to direct drive the motor to the spindle?

Thanks in advance for any reply.
 
Nothing says you have to use the vfd to do more than provide 3 phase at a constant frequency. You could then use the lathe to vary speed as designed.Wa5cab might have you a way to preserve the baldor unit, and again nothing says you have to change speed with that either. I don't know anything about that, but I did fit a simple teco drive to my 3phase Bridgeport. It now runs on 220v single phase. I mostly use the belts to change speed, but I use the vfd also to adjust in between speeds. However you go about it, I don't see a need to change the way the motor drives the lathe. To me, half the fun of metalworking has been to figure things like this out and get a bit of education in the process.
 
Following along on this one . :encourage:
 
Nothing says you have to use the vfd to do more than provide 3 phase at a constant frequency. You could then use the lathe to vary speed as designed.Wa5cab might have you a way to preserve the baldor unit, and again nothing says you have to change speed with that either. I don't know anything about that, but I did fit a simple teco drive to my 3phase Bridgeport. It now runs on 220v single phase. I mostly use the belts to change speed, but I use the vfd also to adjust in between speeds. However you go about it, I don't see a need to change the way the motor drives the lathe. To me, half the fun of metalworking has been to figure things like this out and get a bit of education in the process.

Thanks this is great info. After a night of restless sleep, I see the application for the VFD. Use the VFD at 100% for constant speed/frequency of the motor and use the OEM drive to change the spindle speed. Also will be the availability to change the speed of the motor by why of the VFD if desired.
It seem so simple it can't be true. This is a great eye opener.
The next step will be to get a new VFD, single phase in three phase out. Megger check the installed Peerless 3ph motor. Then rewire the lathe for the new VFD. Run a new circuit in the shop. Then play till my hearts content. :)
I think I have finally have a project worth a build thread. As seemingly simple as you make it out to be. Alas this is a budget build and time is usually not in my favor. Time and money..... If I have one, I don't have the other!
Story and pictures to continue.
 
If there are issues with the hydraulic and sheave (Reeves) setup it can be eliminated, which is what I did, see under clausing section...
 
The inverter drive is a Baldor Series 11 VFD circa mid 90's. It can run on single phase in a derated mode, so most likely the VFD is a 2 Hp model, in derated mode it is rated for 1 Hp on single phase. It may be sufficient to run the lathe as is on single phase. It is a very old unit but they were over built at the time. Biggest concern would be the power supply capacitors which go with time. If you power it up on single phase, just let it sit powered for 1-2 hours before running the motor. This may reform some of the electrolytic's in the power supply. I would see if you can find a model number on the VFD which would give some more information as to ratings.

The VFD is already wired into the the control system for the lathe, by looking at the terminal connections and the VFD settings you should be able to workout what the wires are connected to/function. (i.e. For. Rev. Jog Free run etc.). You may be able to pull the programming information from the VFD if it powers up, see the manual.

The wiring control functions are very similar to other VFD's that have a common terminal and then separate inputs for the low voltage connections. It should be straight forward if you need to replace the VFD with a newer model, which would be about 1/4 the size. The Lenze SMV line has a control arrangement that is very similar to this old Baldor, I can give some more detailed recommendations if you find the the VFD needs to be replaced.

It is unclear if the speed is being adjusted with the VFD drive or it is just using to provide 60Hz 3 phase and the speed is being changed mechanically.

Picture of drive type:
Baldor  AC Motor Adjustable Speed Drive, 200-230VAC.JPG

Review the attached manual for the Baldor AC drive.
 

Attachments

  • Baldor Inverter Drive SERIES 11 1 A 5CV 200-230V.pdf
    4.4 MB · Views: 11
The inverter drive is a Baldor Series 11 VFD circa mid 90's. It can run on single phase in a derated mode, so most likely the VFD is a 2 Hp model, in derated mode it is rated for 1 Hp on single phase. It may be sufficient to run the lathe as is on single phase. It is a very old unit but they were over built at the time. Biggest concern would be the power supply capacitors which go with time. If you power it up on single phase, just let it sit powered for 1-2 hours before running the motor. This may reform some of the electrolytic's in the power supply. I would see if you can find a model number on the VFD which would give some more information as to ratings.

The VFD is already wired into the the control system for the lathe, by looking at the terminal connections and the VFD settings you should be able to workout what the wires are connected to/function. (i.e. For. Rev. Jog Free run etc.). You may be able to pull the programming information from the VFD if it powers up, see the manual.

The wiring control functions are very similar to other VFD's that have a common terminal and then separate inputs for the low voltage connections. It should be straight forward if you need to replace the VFD with a newer model, which would be about 1/4 the size. The Lenze SMV line has a control arrangement that is very similar to this old Baldor, I can give some more detailed recommendations if you find the the VFD needs to be replaced.

It is unclear if the speed is being adjusted with the VFD drive or it is just using to provide 60Hz 3 phase and the speed is being changed mechanically.

Picture of drive type:
View attachment 315442

Review the attached manual for the Baldor AC drive.


This is HUGE! I just wasted a solid three hours today at work looking for this manual. Actually saw this photo. Contacted ABB which now owes Baldor. They haven't gotten back to me yet. But you just knocked it out of the park. Thanks a TON!:D
 
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