New to me Fray 10R All Angle...

Scuffy

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that I purchased this past fall. Originally from the Ravenna Arsenal, here in Ohio, I picked it up from a guy local to the arsenal for $300. How many owners came between him and the base? Lord only knows. Looks pretty complete... but for one glaring thing. The motor and accompanying shroud and stepped pulleys are missing from my Fray 10R. In all of my casual searching of the interwebs I have not yet come across any direct replacements. I realize the shrouds are more cosmetic than anything and I can fab up something much simpler to accomplish the same thing. So looking at a worst case scenario- I'm not adverse to some creative time with my steel supply. But the pulleys.. what of the stepped pulleys? Does anyone here still own their Fray 10R and would you be able to tell me what diameters I should be looking for if I am going for a replacement? For the speed ranges would you recommend any changes?


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And secondly! I have read of a back gear assembly for this unit but I can't quite identify whether or not this has it. I am leaning towards a big whopping "NO".
 

Chipper5783

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Wow, a very worthy endeavor you have undertaken. Good luck.

You have inspired me to post my "madness" project - a radial arm drill, in pieces, no documentation available and only one obscure reference to another one in existence. Clearly a great idea to spend many hours on - and if it does come together well, I'd likely rarely use it (have plenty other drilling options).
 

Choiliefan

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When you move the quill up and down does the top pulley/gear remain stationary?
Just curious... :)
 

benmychree

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I have a Fray mill that is not the all angle head, just tilting in one plane, but the milling heads are the same; I have parts of another head, but will have to check it out to see what I have. The back gear unit is in the pulley assembly that fits over the spindle, it is a planetary gear unit.
 

benmychree

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So far, I found that I have the lower pulley that drives the back gear and the spline shaft Assembly that drives the quill and contains the planetary unit. the pulley has chunks missing from the smallest step and the one below has a small chunk missing, as does the one that I use in my shop, but that does not much matter, as I have never used those (very) high speeds; I thought that I had the motor as well, but have not been able to find it.
 

benmychree

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What spindle taper does yours have? The one that I use has a 30 NMTB taper, the parts one, I think had a #7 B&S. The drawbar is a Allen capscrew that is captive down below the spline shaft that the pulley rides on, it is tightened by a long shaft that has a hex milled on it, and a hex nut on top, it runs inside the spline shaft.
 

benmychree

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When you move the quill up and down does the top pulley/gear remain stationary?
Just curious... :)
The original pulley sits on that spline shaft and engages the planetary unit with a gear inside the pulley (the sun gear), the original pulley is actually two pulleys, the bottom one with 2 grooves and the top pulley with 4 grooves; with the back gear engaged, only the bottom (2 grooved pulley) is usable, so, the back gears only add two speeds to the unit, a total of 8 speeds. The back gears are engaged or disengaged by a knob on the side of the head under the pulley(s), you push it up and turn it clockwise and it threads into a driving plug in the planetary unit and pull down on it, unthread it from the plug, and it is in back gear; reverse the process and the plug ties both pulleys together for the fast range; there should be a plate on the side of the head that diagramaticaly shows how it works, the pin also serves as a spindle lock when tightening or loosening the drawbar.
The way the pictures show it, that pulley would raise and lower with the quill.
 

benmychree

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They had another model that offered even more angular features, they were made in Los Angeles, Ca., the one that I have was re branded with a plate screwed on over the Fray name, as Axelson, a maker of lathes also in L.A.
 

Buffalo21

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I have 3 friends and their buddies, that have Fray milling machines, everyone of them has a Bridgeport M-Head on it.
 

benmychree

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The Bridgeport M head is not a very good choice for replacement of the Fray head, in my opinion, as it is quite limited in usefulness, not having low speeds (no back gear), as compared with the original, especially if the original is equipped, as is my example, with the 30 taper spindle; the 7 B&S spindle would be quite limiting.
 

Scuffy

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Sorry to respond so late, gents! Work keeps me away from home for 2-3 days at a time and sometimes its hard to get the time, wifi, or determination to hop on the net at the hotel.

What spindle taper does yours have? The one that I use has a 30 NMTB taper, the parts one, I think had a #7 B&S. The drawbar is a Allen capscrew that is captive down below the spline shaft that the pulley rides on, it is tightened by a long shaft that has a hex milled on it, and a hex nut on top, it runs inside the spline shaft.
Mine takes the Ericson QC30 or NMTB-30 collet holder/adaptor for DA180 collets

And Buffalo21- your friends with the Bridgeport conversions.... are they just using the motor/pulley unit from the top of the Bridgeport heads transplanted onto the Fray mills top case plate or are they literally using the whole Bridgeport head- spindle and all in place of the Fray head? I'm not familiar enough with mills that utilize interchangeable or removable heads to know how they work. (My other mill is a K&T Model 2D Rotary Head Mill from 1945. So no similarities there!) What type of work is needed for the Bridgeport to Fray conversion? Just from the brief search I did on the interwebs I found a couple Bridgeport heads nearby. Would you be able to get any pictures of those mills you mentioned?

It'd be nice not to have to completely reinvent the wheel if I didn't have to...
 

Choiliefan

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Tree made a head for adaptation to other machines.
With back gear and power downfeed.
Used Tree collets and that genius collet closer.
 

Buffalo21

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The Bridgeport M head is not a very good choice for replacement of the Fray head, in my opinion, as it is quite limited in usefulness, not having low speeds (no back gear), as compared with the original, especially if the original is equipped, as is my example, with the 30 taper spindle; the 7 B&S spindle would be quite limiting.

I agree,


Sorry to respond so late, gents! Work keeps me away from home for 2-3 days at a time and sometimes its hard to get the time, wifi, or determination to hop on the net at the hotel.



Mine takes the Ericson QC30 or NMTB-30 collet holder/adaptor for DA180 collets

And Buffalo21- your friends with the Bridgeport conversions.... are they just using the motor/pulley unit from the top of the Bridgeport heads transplanted onto the Fray mills top case plate or are they literally using the whole Bridgeport head- spindle and all in place of the Fray head? I'm not familiar enough with mills that utilize interchangeable or removable heads to know how they work. (My other mill is a K&T Model 2D Rotary Head Mill from 1945. So no similarities there!) What type of work is needed for the Bridgeport to Fray conversion? Just from the brief search I did on the interwebs I found a couple Bridgeport heads nearby. Would you be able to get any pictures of those mills you mentioned?

It'd be nice not to have to completely reinvent the wheel if I didn't have to...

I believe at the time, it was a available kit. I personally would look else where, if you were looking at a belt drive J head or the variable speed J head, if might be a variable option, but an M-head is very limiting, they are either MT#2 or B&S #7, not current sizes used by tooling manufacturers. It’s still available but costly and very limiting, on end mill and other attachments, roughly 1/2”. Everyone of my friends with the Frays, are happy to have milling machines, but also wishing they had mills that were at a minimum of R8. Is there a Fray owner’s group?? If so, they might be a true source of viable information.
 

benmychree

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The extra parts that I have are available if you decide to reconstruct yours.
 
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