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New To Me, Jet 1336pbd - With Some "issues"

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Steve Shannon

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#1
A couple weeks ago I found a Jet 1336PBD on Craigslist. I went and saw it and apparently my eagerness to have something big and heavy clouded my brain. It has some problems, which probably should have scared me away. They are (so far):
  1. One broken tooth on the bull gear,
  2. One broken tooth on the pinion on the back gear which meshes with the bull,
  3. Scoring and burrs inside the spindle (MT5),
  4. Lack of fastidiousness; the lathe is filthy, but the ways don't "look" badly worn,
  5. Quick change gear selectors would not move,
  6. One of the cap screws holding the headstock casting to the bed has broken; the head was just sitting in the hole, and
  7. One of the belt pulleys is broken.
Bit by bit I'm going to begin cleaning up the parts and try to find replacements for for the broken ones. If I determine that parts from a specific model of another company's lathe are compatible I will document that. I'm not disciplined enough to do a full rebuild thread, but I will try to post pics once I begin. That won't be until the spring though as I have way too many other things which I must finish first.
I'm interested in your comments.
 

RJSakowski

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#2
Hi Steve, Welcome to the group! It sounds like you will need to apply some TLC to your newly acquired lathe. You will undoubtedly find someone who has gone through the same problems before you. Don't be afraid to ask. Whether it be a source of parts or suggestions as to how to tackle a certain tasks.

Bob
 

Steve Shannon

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#3
Thanks, Bob. I appreciate the encouragement. I've been poring through other posts in hopes of learning of parts sources. One general question I would ask is for suggestions regarding go-no go decisions and what order to approach the rebuild. I'm not looking to make this into a machine that will cut tenths and earn money with, just something I can use to play with.



Steve Shannon, P.E.
 

brino

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#4
Hi Steve,

Welcome to the site!

It sounds like your expectations are set correctly. You know this lathe is a "project" now, but after hundreds of invested hours can be a usable lathe.
You are going to learn so much about that lathe as you proceed. You will know it inside out.

-broken gear teeth can be brazed then filed to recreate the tooth profile
-the bigger question is how they broke
-was it at the same time as the headstock bolt and the pulley? some sudden stop?
-was the lathe dropped? (yikes!)
-what other damage may be lurking?

Please note that NONE of this is meant to discourage you. With slow persistence you can return this abused equipment into a wonderful useful tool!
Do your research, ask lots of questions, and as my Dad has always told me 'do NOT make any big decisions at the end of the day when you are tired/sore/beaten/dejected'.

-light scoring inside the Morse taper can be dealt with by light stoning of the high-spots
-a nice, clean MT5 shank can be blued and used as a gauge to see mating spots
-a MT reamer can deal with heavier scoring (a little expensive for "one time" use, but you may be able to borrow one here.)

-a good cleaning is definitely in order

One other thought.....hit it NOW with some penetrating oil! Shoot every bolt, nut, thread, dovetail, half-nut, sliding gear, etc. Try to do it every 2-3 weeks and by spring you'll be amazed at how easy it is to work on. A 50/50 mix of ATF (Automatic Transmission Fluid) and acetone is my favourite. The mixture is so thin that it wicks into every crevice, the acetone does evaporate quickly but it leaves the oil behind.

Good Luck!
-brino

btw: please post some pictures when you can....even the dirty, broken "before" pictures.
 

Steve Shannon

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#5
brino,
Thanks for the good words; your list of questions is the same as mine. To me it looks like whatever broke the gears was a different event than that which broke the pulley. I do wonder if the lathe was dropped. I think I should check for spindle damage before I invest a whole bunch of money, but my time is cheap . I didn't see visible runout when the seller showed it to me. I think my next step is to pick up a Mitutoyo DTI and do some basic tests.
Is this the right forum to document my steps and mis-steps?
I've been shooting WD-40 in every crevice. I may just try your penetrating oil recipe. I interned in a ceramic engineering company and developed a very healthy distrust of acetone except for use in very small quantities. One splash in your eyes and your corneas are permanently cloudy. Of course I will wear safety glasses as I work on this.
The qc gear levers now slide easily along their shat, but only if I push right next to the shaft. Any force at the end of the lever and it sticks. I suspect wear allows the levers to cock slightly and bind. Does that sound reasonable?



Steve Shannon, P.E.
(Edited to correct auto-correct respelling of "brino".
 
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Steve Shannon

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#6
The Jet BDB-1340, looks very similar. Does anyone know if any of the gears are compatible?


Steve Shannon, P.E.
 

Steve Shannon

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#7
For example, the bull gear for the 1336PBD has the same module pitch and number of teeth as the one for the BDB1340. Same for the back gears. The two gears there have the same pitch (MP2) and number of teeth. The drawings, while not exactly the same, follow exactly the same layout, right down to the number in the picture. Now, I know that in 28 years and moving the manufacturing from Taiwan to China there could be insurmountable differences, but I'm encouraged by the similarities. If anyone on this forum has a BDB-1340, I would appreciate exchanging dimensions.


Steve Shannon, P.E.
 

pdentrem

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#8
I have Jet BDB-1340A at work and a clone at home. How can I help?
Pierre
 

Steve Shannon

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#9
Great! Could you tell me the length of the back gears, which is part #04109A. Just a close approximation would be a good start. If it's close to the length of the similar part on my 1336PBD, I might order one from Jet if they allow returns. No hurry, please, I won't order anything until late January.
Thank you very much!


Steve Shannon, P.E.
 
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pdentrem

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#10
In measuring my clone at home I have approximately 4.9" OAL. When I get to work next week I can measure the Jet BDB-1340 and post that one.

back gear.jpg
 
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Steve Shannon

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#11
Mine is the same length, but I know my first purchases will need to include good measuring tools.
Here's mine:
e05e45400e19dd51002c0f99f7750f3a.jpg


Steve Shannon, P.E.
 

Steve Shannon

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#12
The pinion, on the right, is about 7/8 inch thick. The gear on the left is 3/4 in. thick.
Let me know when I start to irritate you. :)
Does yours have a zerk?
Also, can you slide the back gears left and right? I don't see a set screw and mine definitely slide, about 1/8 inch or so.
The problem with mine is this broken tooth:

Thank you very much! 12917a40abcb7d8fbf5d2db37b2b03dd.jpg


Steve Shannon, P.E.
 

derf

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#13
I just looked at mine, and it has about 3/16" play from end to end and has a zerk. I've never had it out, but if the need arises I will probably install some shims. If or when you pull the spindle, it would be a good idea to drill some "extra" dog pin holes in the face of the spindle pulley. I had mine get rounded off and ever so often it would slip out of gear, so I drilled 4 holes for the drive pin dog to engage as not to put so much wear on just one hole.
 

Steve Shannon

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#14
Thanks, derf, I wonder if the design uses the side to side play to equalize the thrust caused by the helical gears.
I will eventually remove the spindle. Tonight I tried to remove the back gears. I took out the set screws and removed the lever. The bushing on the left end slid out easily. Because of the offset shaft i "think" the right bushing needs to be removed toward the right. I started tapping on the shaft using a block of wood on the left end of the shaft. The bushing on the right started coming out easily, but then stopped. Not wanting to break anything, I stopped. Any suggestions?


Steve Shannon, P.E.
 
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Steve Shannon

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#15
Looking at the BDB-1340A manual/parts diagram, it looks like the eccentric shaft should be able to slide out to the left. I'll try that tomorrow.


Steve Shannon, P.E.
 

Steve Shannon

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#16
More pictures of the lathe:
3fc87edf27173e3bc9223feacecbe2b7.jpg

Here's the spindle bore:
Outboard
439ee4929ebd4dac4d35395dce54bba7.jpg

Inboard view
8299dc913b7d231e567f4f0029788657.jpg


Steve Shannon, P.E.
 

derf

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#17
That bushing should be able to go either way, the only thing that holds it is a set screw. It may have a slight burr or mushroom on the side where the gear rubs it.
 

therickster

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#18
Thats the exact lathe I have in my shop. Mine is a 1989. It will be interesting to see what parts will work in this lathe. I have the original manual for it also.
 

brino

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#19
Tonight I tried to remove the back gears. I took out the set screws and removed the lever. The bushing on the left end slid out easily. Because of the offset shaft i "think" the right bushing needs to be removed toward the right. I started tapping on the shaft using a block of wood on the left end of the shaft. The bushing on the right started coming out easily, but then stopped. Not wanting to break anything, I stopped. Any suggestions?
Did you check for a second set-screw under the first?
That is sometimes done to lock the first one, like grub nuts.
-brino
 

Steve Shannon

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#20
Brino,
When I first started, one of the set-screws was missing completely. In my poking around I have found some screws missing, broken, or replaced with something "similar". :)
I looked in the hole and could see the bushing. On the other end of the shaft I removed the sole set-screw. The bushing that had a set-screw came out easily. The other came out easily about 3/8 inch, then seemed to get tight.



Steve Shannon, P.E.
 

Steve Shannon

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#21
Thats the exact lathe I have in my shop. Mine is a 1989. It will be interesting to see what parts will work in this lathe. I have the original manual for it also.
I'll try to do a better job of documenting my progress then.


Steve Shannon, P.E.
 

Steve Shannon

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#22
That bushing should be able to go either way, the only thing that holds it is a set screw. It may have a slight burr or mushroom on the side where the gear rubs it.
That makes sense to me. Thanks, again.


Steve Shannon, P.E.
 

pdentrem

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#23
The pinion, on the right, is about 7/8 inch thick. The gear on the left is 3/4 in. thick.
Let me know when I start to irritate you. :)
Does yours have a zerk?
Also, can you slide the back gears left and right? I don't see a set screw and mine definitely slide, about 1/8 inch or so.
The problem with mine is this broken tooth:

Thank you very much! 12917a40abcb7d8fbf5d2db37b2b03dd.jpg


Steve Shannon, P.E.
The gears measure the same on mine. I will get dimensions Monday on the Jet at work.
Pierre
 

Steve Shannon

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#24
What brand/model is your clone? Is the back gears part the same Module Pitch 2, with 22 and 52 teeth?
Having more part availability would be good. With enough information I might be able to put a spreadsheet together showing which models share which parts.
Thanks!


Steve Shannon, P.E.
 
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derf

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#25
Mine is a Jet BDB 1340 that was purchased new in 2000. The only difference I see is that mine has a longer bed and is a different color. I would assume that since the swing is the same, the headstock would be the same. My manual shows that the gear has 52T/22T, and the part #04109A.
 

Steve Shannon

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#26
The shaft and back gears came out easily today. On the 22 tooth end the bronze bushing is obviously worn or machined off center. bf3a2043f247c9ef405d1ca03d7307d9.jpg
71c24c37d5e0fee658782718d1f20541.jpg
The headstock casting looks like it's in good condition, so far.
d80712d916edf3263dbb3300ce7b4d79.jpg


Steve Shannon, P.E.
 

Steve Shannon

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#27
Mine is a Jet BDB 1340 that was purchased new in 2000. The only difference I see is that mine has a longer bed and is a different color. I would assume that since the swing is the same, the headstock would be the same. My manual shows that the gear has 52T/22T, and the part #04109A.
If this project works out okay, I'll see about painting mine.
Two weeks ago I didn't think mine could be salvaged. Now I'm optimistic.
The bore in the back gears is just over 13/16". The helical angle looks like it's about 15 degrees, but I don't have a good way to measure it.
What would those of you who have rebuilt machines do next to rebuild the back gears? I'm going to be too busy to do anything until late January, but apparently I like obsessing over things like this.


Steve Shannon, P.E.
 

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#28
I had a Logan lathe that had several teeth knocked out of the bull gear. A replacement gear was available, but it was $500. I pre-heated the gear, MIG welded the area where the teeth were missing, and then slowly cooled the part in front of a quartz heater (the kind used to cure powder coat, 450+ degrees) over a period of several hours. No cracks! Then I used a high speed cutoff tool to cut slots where the teeth should be, and hand filed tooth profiles back into it. It worked like a charm, and the machine is still working fine to this day. Just fuel for those times when folks say "it can't be done". It can!

It looks like you are making excellent progress. Great work!

GG
 

Steve Shannon

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#29
Thanks, GG,
I'm supposed to be finishing the shop though, not succumbing to the allure of a wounded machine.


Steve Shannon, P.E.
 

GarageGuy

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#30
Yep, first things first. Having a new shop with lots of space to work will make the lathe project easier later on. I would jump through some pretty crazy hoops to get a new shop, but it's not gonna happen. The garage is what it is :grin:

GG
 
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