New to Van Norman and new to milling

[aaronpadilla]

Hi there,
I got a mill that looked interesting at a glance and also dirty cheap so I bought it, the guy had dismantled it for transport and never put it back together again.
So it turned to be a sort of weird machine called Van Norman 12, then a further research shown that the collets are as weird as the machine itself and spindle cone is maybe worn, I have also a worn collet and a nasty welded drawbar.

So what should be my next move? send spindle to a machine shop to get it bored to a commercial collet size? I have read about some guys gringing it to R8
Assuming that spindle is yet useful like that, can I get Van Norman collets somewhere?
Should I part it out?
Since I paid $400 and scrap iron kg is paid $1.5, I am guessing that I would be able to get around of $1500 from scrap yard so , should I scrap it?

Thanks in advance

 

[benmychree]

Best to modify the spindle, if possible.

 

[T Bredehoft]

I'd want to see it together before making the "scrap" call. The spindle can be saved, maybe even replaced with NOS. Van Normans were a good line of mills.

 

[JRock1000]

Put it together and see what shape she's in. VN12 is a nice mill. C collets are available, and you can either build an adapter or send the spindle out if it's not satisfactory.
Scrap is closer to $.05 a kg (steel is $.01 a pound right now).
So you'd lose a significant amount on that.
Thank goodness too, or there wouldn't be any beautiful Old Machines left.
If you decide you'd rather not deal with it, sell it on for what you paid, if you'd like to see it go to someone who'd use it,
or part it out if you're chief concern is the bottom line (you can almost definitely get more for parts than scrap).

 

[Stefants]

Based on my admittedly limited experience, I’d say it depends on what you want from it. If you want a running mill, it could be a nice machine, but certainly needs some tlc. It’s gotta be a labor of love rather than a mill to flip and make a buck on. I’d be surprised if it could be sold for anything more than the scrap value you mentioned (though it pains me to say that). I’ve seen them in seemingly good shape for less (see attached). I suspect that by the time you got it up and running properly again, you’d likely have a significant fraction of your purchase price into it for parts (based on what I see...obviously there’s stuff there I can’t see).

That said, if you want a mill for your home shop, I think you could likely get this up and running for a lot less than most Bridgeports go for, and you’d have a small footprint, universal (both vertical and horizontal) mill. To be fair, you’d need a horizontal arbor for the horizontal capability. Collets (or any tooling to fit the spindle) can certainly be an issue. That said, I see you have a lathe...make them? Or an adapter to get over to an ER collet maybe? I’ve seen a set go on e-bay, but they command a price (see attached). There is a key in taper on the spindle. It certainly looks like that key is shot and stuck in your spindle, but that’s replaceable...is the taper itself intact? The drawbar isn’t pretty, but it looks functional (?)

Do the spindle and speed change gearboxes rotate OK? Are the gears moveable? I’m sure they need cleaning, but if the gearboxes, spindle bearings, or the gear that drives the spindle from the ram after the gearbox are in rough shape, that could be a show stopper (or at least a bigger headache).

Do you know what you’ll be doing for motors? There are separate motors for the spindle and table drive. I didn’t see them in your pics.

If you opt to part/scrap it, I’d be interested in talking to you about a few pieces. The overarm support is rare, and you could likely get some money out of it (likely more than I’m willing to pay, since it’s a part I think I’ll make at some point). I’m missing a hand wheel and a piece to the drive shaft that runs from the speed changer gearbox to the table. I gather the bracket that holds the table lead screw is a common piece to find broken on these.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[aaronpadilla]

Put it together and see what shape she's in. VN12 is a nice mill. C collets are available, and you can either build an adapter or send the spindle out if it's not satisfactory.
Scrap is closer to $.05 a kg (steel is $.01 a pound right now).
So you'd lose a significant amount on that.
Thank goodness too, or there wouldn't be any beautiful Old Machines left.
If you decide you'd rather not deal with it, sell it on for what you paid, if you'd like to see it go to someone who'd use it,
or part it out if you're chief concern is the bottom line (you can almost definitely get more for parts than scrap).

Thanks for the advice JRock1000, it looks like I have picked the wrong scrap price, anyway it was my last call, so can you tell me where the C collets are available please?

 

[aaronpadilla]

Based on my admittedly limited experience, I’d say it depends on what you want from it. If you want a running mill, it could be a nice machine, but certainly needs some tlc. It’s gotta be a labor of love rather than a mill to flip and make a buck on. I’d be surprised if it could be sold for anything more than the scrap value you mentioned (though it pains me to say that). I’ve seen them in seemingly good shape for less (see attached). I suspect that by the time you got it up and running properly again, you’d likely have a significant fraction of your purchase price into it for parts (based on what I see...obviously there’s stuff there I can’t see).

That said, if you want a mill for your home shop, I think you could likely get this up and running for a lot less than most Bridgeports go for, and you’d have a small footprint, universal (both vertical and horizontal) mill. To be fair, you’d need a horizontal arbor for the horizontal capability. Collets (or any tooling to fit the spindle) can certainly be an issue. That said, I see you have a lathe...make them? Or an adapter to get over to an ER collet maybe? I’ve seen a set go on e-bay, but they command a price (see attached). There is a key in taper on the spindle. It certainly looks like that key is shot and stuck in your spindle, but that’s replaceable...is the taper itself intact? The drawbar isn’t pretty, but it looks functional (?)

Do the spindle and speed change gearboxes rotate OK? Are the gears moveable? I’m sure they need cleaning, but if the gearboxes, spindle bearings, or the gear that drives the spindle from the ram after the gearbox are in rough shape, that could be a show stopper (or at least a bigger headache).

Do you know what you’ll be doing for motors? There are separate motors for the spindle and table drive. I didn’t see them in your pics.

If you opt to part/scrap it, I’d be interested in talking to you about a few pieces. The overarm support is rare, and you could likely get some money out of it (likely more than I’m willing to pay, since it’s a part I think I’ll make at some point). I’m missing a hand wheel and a piece to the drive shaft that runs from the speed changer gearbox to the table. I gather the bracket that holds the table lead screw is a common piece to find broken on these.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for your advice Stefants, I really like your idea of ER collets, I think that it is my call, I just check the taper with a dial, it looks acceptable, as you said the key is shot but it holds with a pin, it should no be a big issue to repair it.

I have removed the head and the gear looks good, the gear box turns smooth, the machine was on 3 phase 550V so the guy put the main motor in scrap I bet it was a nice look motor, but he kept the pulley and he also keep the table feed motor.

I am pretty sure that I will be able to make it work but if I change my mind I will let you know to sell you some parts.

 

[JRock1000]

Are you moderately capable on your lathe? ER collets are excellent and ubiquitous. Make a C to ER adapter, and you're set.
I made a BS13 to 40 Taper adapter for my VN22L. Not only will it drastically increase the usability, but Also Multiply to resale price

 

[4ssss]

Either scrap it or use it for an anchor.

 

[aaronpadilla]

Are you moderately capable on your lathe? ER collets are excellent and ubiquitous. Make a C to ER adapter, and you're set.
I made a BS13 to 40 Taper adapter for my VN22L. Not only will it drastically increase the usability, but Also Multiply to resale price

Can you share photos of your adapters please?