Oh boy, you guys are gonna hate me.

Richard King 2 said:
You may ask management here to switch this thread to the rebuilding / reconditioning forum. More members will benefit from it there.
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Can you ask? I'm really new here and o barely know anyone, that's why I put the thread here
 
Flyinfool said:
I almost wonder if the saddle did not have a defect in the casting and they just kept grinding at the factory till it worked properly?? If there was 5mm worn off that surface I would expect to see a lot more galling and other nastiness.
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I've read through this and looked at the photos a few times now. If there was actually 5mm of wear than you would not see any oil grooves. Uniformly and unanimously - we wouldn't be able to detect any evidence of oil grooves. Even if there was a worn taper, oil grooves are not cut more than 5mm deep in a saddle in so far that you would see oil grooves after years of wear taking down that cast iron 5mm. No way. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong about that statement that oil grooves are not cut more than 5 mm deep.

I think you have a bed that is VERY twisted.

While it is clear that your saddle is very worn, I think the 5mm has to be some sort of miscalculation or observation error. Twist could induce something like what you are describing at the scale that you are observing for a lathe of that size.

Also, I am going to move this thread to the Reconditioning Thread. While there are some cross over topics in this thread, it is mostly about the the reconditioning of the machine and you will likely get some additional input over there.

No way are we gonna hate you on this thread! This is the type of topic we live for here at H-M!
 
vtcnc said:
I've read through this and looked at the photos a few times now. If there was actually 5mm of wear than you would not see any oil grooves. Uniformly and unanimously - we wouldn't be able to detect any evidence of oil grooves. Even if there was a worn taper, oil grooves are not cut more than 5mm deep in a saddle in so far that you would see oil grooves after years of wear taking down that cast iron 5mm. No way. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong about that statement that oil grooves are not cut more than 5 mm deep.

I think you have a bed that is VERY twisted.

While it is clear that your saddle is very worn, I think the 5mm has to be some sort of miscalculation or observation error. Twist could induce something like what you are describing at the scale that you are observing for a lathe of that size.

Also, I am going to move this thread to the Reconditioning Thread. While there are some cross over topics in this thread, it is mostly about the the reconditioning of the machine and you will likely get some additional input over there.

No way are we gonna hate you on this thread! This is the type of topic we live for here at H-M!
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I agree completely on just about everything you said, that's why I came here before I did anything to the saddle, 5mm always seemed way too much deep in my gut.
Thank you also for changing to the correct thread.
 
My metric sucks....I missed that. 5 mm = 0.197" a little over 3/16". I would think the oil grooves could be cut by hand or ground in by hand 1/8" tops. I did a close up of the bottom of the saddle and at the top of the frame I have a + and I pressed it. Then look on the outside of the V's and the flat and there are narrow ridges of original not worn surfaces. Use the end of your veneer caliber and check the height of then.

When you cleaned up the machine did you fine small sand particles by chance? I saw a condition like this once before on a lathe the owner used a tool post grinder all the time and the lubrication mixed with it acted like lapping compound. The pits in the ways is a sign of lack of lubrication as the cast iron pulls out from the friction of super smooth surfaces that "ring" together like gage blocks rubbed together stick. You need a better level. That one your using is for wood working. Or if that's all you have, use a magnifying glass to check repeatability from one end to the other. I thought Adam lived closer and he has a precision level.
 
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To figure out what size shim you will need turn the saddle back over after you stone it for burrs then bolt on the carriage, Have it on the tail-stock end, then start to shim the 6 corners to bring it up and you can feel backlash in the rack and pinion. It will be worn but it's all you have. Let us know what size shim you find out. This the materials I use, https://www.tstar.com/RULON-142 and https://www.acmeplastics.com/phenolic/phenolic-sheet You could check in your industrial plastic companies in your area and see if they work. The picture you have of the flat stock looks like steel. Don't use steel. Bronze would work to, but it is very expensive. Another material is https://www.interstateplastics.com/Nylatron-Nylon-Nsm-Cast-Sheet-NYLSCN~SH.php
 
Richard King 2 said:
To figure out what size shim you will need turn the saddle back over after you stone it for burrs then bolt on the carriage, Have it on the tail-stock end, then start to shim the 6 corners to bring it up and you can feel backlash in the rack and pinion. It will be worn but it's all you have. Let us know what size shim you find out. This the materials I use, https://www.tstar.com/RULON-142 and https://www.acmeplastics.com/phenolic/phenolic-sheet You could check in your industrial plastic companies in your area and see if they work. The picture you have of the flat stock looks like steel. Don't use steel. Bronze would work to, but it is very expensive. Another material is https://www.interstateplastics.com/Nylatron-Nylon-Nsm-Cast-Sheet-NYLSCN~SH.php
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The steel was just a prop, my first idea was to get actual cast iron, there's plenty of old scrap machines here with nice cast iron to use from...
But from what flyinfool said I might not even have to shim anything because the angle of the wear might be the least of my problems
 
I’ve been following this thread and being inexperienced , trying to learn . The issue is he dials a certain amount and doesn’t get the correct outcome. I’m trying to figure out how the wear in the ways are causing his problem? I can understand if there’s wear along the ways the cuts might cut a taper . A hypothetical job , say 2” shaft and a 1” cut along it he touches off takes a he takes a .010” doc on his dial . He measures needing another .008” on a side , he dials that and getting something different? Wouldn’t that be a different problem, slop in the crossslide , compound or others ?
 
Alcap said:
I’ve been following this thread and being inexperienced , trying to learn . The issue is he dials a certain amount and doesn’t get the correct outcome. I’m trying to figure out how the wear in the ways are causing his problem? I can understand if there’s wear along the ways the cuts might cut a taper . A hypothetical job , say 2” shaft and a 1” cut along it he touches off takes a he takes a .010” doc on his dial . He measures needing another .008” on a side , he dials that and getting something different? Wouldn’t that be a different problem, slop in the crossslide , compound or others ?
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Yes that's exactly the problem, but the worst part is that it's not off by an exact amount, sometimes more, sometimes less
I don't think it might be the crossslide because it's in really good condition with almost no slop at all, and the compound slide is locked, I lock it when not using it
 
Thanks for responding so quickly. I hope the experts can help me understand more . For what it’s worth , on my Clausing 5914 if I want to hit close tolerances I found i have to put a dial indicator on the cross slide when I get close to finish size . Again I have no idea why , but my cross slide screw is worn and nut might be too .
 
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