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RHB

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As I wrote in my introduction I am here on this forum to hopefully enhance my workshop skills
And I don’t know if this is the right place to open a thread with a lot of pictures and only a little workshop activity.
But it is about my effort to build a car model in the scale 1 to 5. I will give it a start and if there is interest I maybe can tell the whole story.

A number of years ago I bought myself a lathe followed by a small milling machine. I practiced a little and after a while I was looking for a kind of project in which I could use both machines.
I was already familiar with CAD software. But only 2D but then someone persuaded me that I better could change to 3D. So I plunged into the 3D world. And than I decided that the next project should be a model car.

First things first. I did a search on the web and in books to find reasonable technical drawings I could use as a starting point for a kind of reverse engineering.
From those data and a little common sense I probably create a 1 to 1 scale 3D drawing.
I found a target. A Porsche 917 racing car from the late sixties of the past century.
I split up the project in more or less three parts.
A) The outer hull ( glass reinforced polyester ).
B) The frame(tubing) with the wheels and so on.
C) The engine with the drive train.
So far the idea.

Rijk

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RHB

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At first there was the frame or chassis .

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RHB

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Then there was a preliminary body just to see if nothing of the frame sticks through.


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Rbeckett

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On a scale of 5:1 how large will the overall dimensions be? I am assuming that you intend to motorize it also, so what size engine do you plan to use/ The 917 was a wicked fast car during it's heyday and gave all the other manufacturers a real run for their money. There are still some retro races that you could probably compete in if you had a full scale car too. I am very interested to see this project come to completion, It is looking way good already with excelent workmanship and high quality assembly. Keep us all posted on your cool project..
Bob
 

Rbeckett

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I use a program called bendtech for calculating all of my tube bends and cope at all of the joints. No reason it will not work in a small scale set up. It works absolutely flawlessly in full scale builds that I have done. It will give you a cut list and a bend sheet on every tube you wish to install. Worth a look if your going for perfection, and The builder of the program still answers his own phone and you can call Chris anytime if you have an issue. Best 200 bucks I ever spent for fab tools and equipment.
Bob
 

RHB

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Next came the steering and front wheel assembly and the suspension.


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RHB

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The next step was to fill up the front. The rims, dashboard, seats, a set of pedals and the front oilcooler.


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RHB

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Okay let's switch to the rear end. Again suspension and wheel assembly and rims . And already a part of the drivetrain.

917def17b_zps9dc386be.jpg

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RHB

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Now over to the engine. First some information about this beast. It’s a 12 cylinder boxer engine with an angle of 180 degrees.
So two opposite pistons will use the same bigend. The layout of the engine looks if two 6 cylinder engines are coupled by mirroring round the center.
From this center the power will be distributed to the transmission and a scavenger oil pump.
Also from here the both ignition distributors as well as the big cooling fan are driven .
And from here two cassettes with gears to drive the camshafts for intake and exhaust on both sides of the engine.

Let’s start with the cranckshaft.


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RHB

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Next step. Conrods, pistons and cylinders.


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RHB

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And the cylinderheads. 2 valves 2 ignitionplugs

cilhead917b_zps5bfc3bc9.jpg

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Bloy

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Hi RHB,
What rendering program are those pictures coming out of?? Is that all part of the "bendtech" program? It can't be. :yikes:
But those are fabulous renderings!
Have you started building it yet?
 
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RHB

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Hi RBH,
What rendering program are those pictures coming out of?? Is that all part of the "bendtech" program? It can't be. :yikes:
But those are fabulous renderings!
Have you started building it yet?
I have used Vray . But I'm not familiar with bendtech. So what do you mean?
And yes I have started building and also finished. But about that later.

Rijk
 

Bloy

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Oh... sorry, I see now that I was responding to comments made by Rbeckett regarding the "bendtech" program.

So! You are going to make me/us wait for the final product? Heh!
 

RHB

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A lot of other stuff was drawn to complete the engine.
Herewith a kind of exploded view

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RHB

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To do something different then drawing I made me a piston. Here seen with a nut M6.

pist01_zps4abe845e.jpg

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RHB

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Okay now lets start building the engine
First we take the right side of the vertical splitable motorcarter.

917assem01_zps6978bbf3.jpg

Then we put in the crankshaft

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RHB

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Twelve conrods (a little hard to see) were attached to the crankshaft. Six sticking up and six down

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The next step 3 shafts. The one beneath the cranckshaft goes to the transmission.
The other one above the cranckshaft will drive the two ignition distributors on each side of the engine and the shaft that sticks right up in the middle that will drive the cooling fan.


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RHB

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Because the engine has a dry sump system an oil pump is placed at the lowest point of the motor carter.


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The other carter half is placed and also the main oil pump in the front of the engine.
This pump is directly driven by the crankshaft and is also one of the 3 points which connect the engine to the frame.



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RHB

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So now turn the engine 90 degrees. Then 14 connecting rods from one side of the engine to the other side as well as 12 pistons were put in place.
On top of it the support plate for the fan.


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Next came the oil filter for the enormous amount of oil what was pumped around and the 48 studs for mounting the cylinders and the cylinderheads.

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RHB

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The following step 12 air-cooled cylinders and two cassettes with a number of gears to drive the camshafts.
Intake on top and exhaust at the bottom .
To operate the valves in a four stroke engine the number of revs must be slow to half the revs of the crankshaft.


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Next the 12 cylinder heads.

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RHB

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On top of the cylinder heads comes a carrier plate wich will hold the camshafts and their housing.


917assem15_zpse178de97.jpg


So almost done . Close up the engine. Put on the sliders with the air intakes.
The huge fan in the middle with on both sides two ignition distributors.


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So I've got my 20 contributions to this forum. Let see what other people are doing.
Maybe when their is more enthousiasm about this thread I will finish it or maybe not.

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Bloy

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I'm full of enthusiasm regarding your thread here! But because of your advanced position, I am merely a spectator.
Since you already built the engine and complete vehicle, I am following you to see the actual construction.
....maybe in a separate thread? I can only imagine the machine shop's capabilities/appearance.....not to mention the casting area, or the body work section.
I hope you took videos of some of the machining!

Yes this is my way to get 20 posts instead of asking stupid things.

Rijk
Heh! I don't think the 20post rule pertains to you as much as it does to those the likes of me. :)
Well done so far!!! Please keep this "build thread" going!

I'm a little hesitant to post questions with the chance they might be deemed in such a way.
But I will ask a question anyway....

Is this one of the pistons you actually used in the engine? :
pist01_zps4abe845e.jpg

pist01_zps4abe845e.jpg
 
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RHB

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I'm full of enthusiasm regarding your thread here! But because of your advanced position, I am merely a spectator.
Since you already built the engine and complete vehicle, I am following you to see the actual construction.
So why do you think I’m in an advanced position?
I never said anything about completion of the engine nor the whole vehicle. Maybe I should tell a bit more about the background of it all.


I hope you took videos of some of the machining!


Heh! I don't think the 20post rule pertains to you as much as it does to those the likes of me. :)
Well done so far!!! Please keep this "build thread" going!

I'm a little hesitant to post questions with the chance they might be deemed in such a way.
But I will ask a question anyway....

Is this one of the pistons you actually used in the engine? :
No videos only a few number of pics. When I’m working in my shop I’m a bad photographer.
Sorry that quotation doesn’t regard people asking me but me asking stupid things to other skilled people.

And indeed this piston is one of the twelve I made.
 

Bloy

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Hi Rijk,
And yes I have started building and also finished. But about that later.

Rijk
This is what led me to believe you finished it. But I may have been confusing your words with the PLANNING and drawings rather than the physical.
I'll be watching for further output from you!

Thanks!
 

RHB

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Now than a little more about the project. I started it about 3 years ago. The first 3 month were for collecting data, drawings, pictures and understanding how everything worked in the real world. Then I started drawing. Three things at the time as I mentioned before the frame , the hull and the engine in a way that when one of those stopped by lack of data I switched to the other. The frame and the hull were on it self not so complicated to get a reasonable result. But when the three parts come together than the problem begun. The things that were most complicated was the translation of the real world data to something that fits in the drawing. For instance the dimension of the tires made from the original specs doesn’t fit the blueprints I’ve used. Rescaling the blueprints to the size of the tires makes the overall length to big.
Another problem was my knowledge of basical technical knowledge . An example . The dimension of the gears that drive the camshafts within the engine. I knew the right number of teeth on each of them but I couldn’t fit them in the cassette that connect the crankshaft and the camshafts. After I enhanced my knowledge about gears I found the solution that was used in the real world. Simply use 2 different modula dimensions to make (draw) those gears.
After a year or so I had most of the parts in place including the engine. But without the gearbox. I’ve been searching around the internet for pics, asking people. I even contacted the Porsche museum. Nothing about that subject. Only some pictures of a closed gearbox and some tables with data about the number of teeth that were used at LeMans.
But at last half a year later or so someone send me some pics he had made himself of an opened gearbox and so I could move on.
I finished the drawings by completing the car with a number of small parts. Some parts has still to be drawn but again there is another subject from which I don’t have the dimensions it’s the 12 channel fuel pump.

Meanwhile I have had conversations with a number of people that were interested to use my drawings for completely different things. One wanted to do theoretical strength calculation on the frame. Another one wanted to 3D print the engine. And even someone wanted all of my drawings to build himself a real car. From most of them I never heard anything.

The last part of the (for me) never ending story is that I started a build. My biggest challenge was the engine. Mostly because of the fact that it wasn’t to big to handle and that the most parts had to be machined. (btw the length of the whole model in 1 to 5 is about 80 cm). And half a year later the project was stopped due to a problem I will tell later on.

Rijk
 
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RHB

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So now see if the engine fits the frame. Still without a gearbox.

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MikeWi

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Don't think that you don't have people interested in this! I check it every day and finally just subscribed to the thread. I've been teaching myself 3D CAD, and I'm simply in awe of your skills. I'm look at the simple drawings I'm trying to convert and then see what you're doing. you're advanced all right!
 

RHB

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I've been teaching myself 3D CAD, and I'm simply in awe of your skills. I'm look at the simple drawings I'm trying to convert and then see what you're doing. you're advanced all right!
I never had any grafical building. I also teached it myself. My advise is to practice and practice until you get what you want.

Rijk
 
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