[4]

Our Saw Cuts Crooked

[3]
[10] Like what you see?
Click here to donate to this forum and upgrade your account!
G

gapi

Guest - Please Register!
Guest - Please Register!
#1
We cannot figure it out. We put in a new blade and guide bearings and she still cuts crooked.
The pivot shaft and bores are fine.
Please educate me on getting this to cut straight? Including operator errors and such?

Thanks

saw01.jpg
saw02.jpg
 

dlane

Active User
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Sep 27, 2014
Messages
2,927
Likes
1,373
#2
I would take a square to it, check vice fixed jaw is square to blade, check blade is square to base,
is blade tight enough, guide bearings adjusted correctly,
Has it ever cut straight ?
 

mzayd3

Active User
Registered
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
Messages
365
Likes
163
#3
Adjust the jaws to the angle needed to cut straight. Lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

mikey

Active User
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
Messages
4,133
Likes
4,460
#4

RJSakowski

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Feb 1, 2015
Messages
3,448
Likes
3,968
#5
Are you talking about cutting at a vertical angle? What worked for me was to adjust the roller guides. The natural tendency of a horizontal band saw is to cut at an angle. Loose guides will allow a bit of bias to influence the cut.
 
T

TOOLMASTER

Guest - Please Register!
Guest - Please Register!
#6
feed slower
 

pineyfolks

Active User
Registered
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
1,072
Likes
412
#7
Teeth per inch can cause issues too. Make sure you have at least 3 blade teeth in contact with the material you're cutting. A coarse blade and thin material don't mix well. Check the blade to make sure the teeth are not running through the guides. If they are it will take the set out of them and cause it to cut crooked.
 

Ulma Doctor

Infinitely Curious
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
0
Likes
13
#8
by the looks of the second picture the clamp arrangement is not perpendicular to the blade.
put a small try square in the clamp horizontally with a side to the blade.
then use the square to adjust the clamp until perpendicular and lock the clamps down.
make reference marks afterwards to repeat the 90* if you should need to move the clamps for miter work.
 

Billh50

Active User
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Jan 26, 2015
Messages
1,924
Likes
1,431
#9
If guides are good and pivot is good. Then
1) square solid jaw to blade
2) check vertical alignment of blade and adjust guides as necessary.
3) Try a slower down feed
 
G

gapi

Guest - Please Register!
Guest - Please Register!
#10
Thanks Guys,

Yes it has cut straight.

Standing in front of the saw where the piece cut off would hit your toes, the cut starting from the top goes to the rear. The side to side is square. I did square up the clamps.
I'll do some slower feeding tomorrow.
I replaced the bearings trying to correct this. The outside bearing on each side are elliptically adjustable and I got them set so you have to get the blade aligned pretty good before it will go between them.

I'll be back.
 

dlane

Active User
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Sep 27, 2014
Messages
2,927
Likes
1,373
#11
If all else is good , can't think of anything other than the blade lost the set on one side 1-2 teeth is all it would take to not cut square. Are you useing name brand blades , new dosn't always mean good
 

MSD0

Registered
Registered
Joined
Apr 22, 2015
Messages
272
Likes
77
#12
Have you checked the blade tension?
 

ezduzit

Active User
Registered
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
385
Likes
163
#13
I have virtually the same Vectrax saw, but with a mitering head. The guide roller parts are machined very sloppy. But, once it is set correctly, produces a beautiful, straight cut that looks like it was machined.

It looks like you are using an unnecessarily narrow blade.
 
G

gapi

Guest - Please Register!
Guest - Please Register!
#14
I think you are right. I don't have the book on the saw but I took her apart again yesterday and the teeth just touch the side bearings when I try to get the top edge of the blade close to the top roller bearing. So I will go up a size.

What I found is the ways that hold the blade guides are wider than the guides. They can shift or tilt if they take a hit. I am new to this saw setup thing so tell me if its for a reason? See between the arrows below.

So, I left them a little loose and eyeballed them to match each other with the blade looking 90°to the table and locked them down. Its cuts MUCH better. A little tapping with a hammer with these and then locking them down is how I did it.

The outside bearing shafts are elliptical and I dialed them in to take the blade install only if you have the blade just right to slip in.

Before all this the cut would end up almost 1/2" inwards from where it started at the top.
One of my co-workers must have hit them inserting a piece into the vice.

Should the ways fit the guides better?


way_width_play.jpg



way_width_play01.jpg
 
D

Deleted member 24888

Guest - Please Register!
Guest - Please Register!
#15
The 'slop' is there to help you adjust the guides so the blade cuts vertically.
The adjustments interact somewhat, e.g. the gap between bearings should be 0.002-3 bigger than blade thickness.
Then adjust blade vertical at both guides, check with test cuts in hardwood.
Then adjust vise perpendicular to blade.

There are further details in the document referred to earlier in the thread.

Better, i.e. machined instead of stamped, washer under those SHCS might help prevent movement in future. If the threads in casting are stripped you should be able to go up one size.
 

tertiaryjim

Active User
H-M Platinum Supporter ($50)
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Messages
604
Likes
312
#16
The guides should be set closer than "eyeball".
Use a square and light behind it to get them as close to vertical as possible.
The vice should also be set by squaring it to the blade. Some vices have a removable dowel at that position but they often are abused and unusable.
If its moved to cut a angle, use the square to reset it so it doesn't mess others up.
This is a standard shop practice which everyone should learn. Yea, there's always one or two who don't care and trying to educate an entire shop seems impossible.
There should be a roller in each guide to keep the blade from rising vertically when cutting.
These aren't cam'd . If they have a groove cut in them the blade can sit high.
If the blade sits offset from the bearing center, not likely, you might just turn them around. Otherwise replace them.

It's always good to see someone who wants to care for and adjust the equipment.
Jim
 
D

Deleted member 473

Guest - Please Register!
Guest - Please Register!
#17
When I adjust the cam rollers to the blade, I do the adjustment with the blade off of the wheels. I make them just snug enough that you can barely pull the blade thru by hand with the roller held stationary.
 

kwoodhands

Active User
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
159
Likes
54
#18
We cannot figure it out. We put in a new blade and guide bearings and she still cuts crooked.
The pivot shaft and bores are fine.
Please educate me on getting this to cut straight? Including operator errors and such?

Thanks

View attachment 130629 View attachment 130630
I have a 15 year old 4 x 6 saw that Took a lot of work to get it to cut square. After adjusting the roller guides as much as possible and still off 1/4" in 5" of height ,I decided to check out the pivot itself. I found the casting was rough , I loosened the bolt and shimmed it.Now I got within 1/16" which would have been enough if I could get it on the money by adjusting the roller guides.I had run out of play with that adjustment so I removed the saw from the pivot. I then placed the pivot casting on the mill. I removed about 1/4" to 0" where the saw meets the casting . Reinstalled everything and now had room to adjust the guides.
The saw cuts square. Once in a while it needs readjusting , simple turn of the roller guides with an 18" adjustable wrench. If I knew the problem right away this would have been a 3 hr job. Took me more like 4 days.Mostly trying to figure out what was wrong.
mike
 

Dabbler

Administrator Trainee
Staff member
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Oct 11, 2016
Messages
463
Likes
349
#19
Most saws have an elliptical adjustment on the pivot toe help with blade tracking. Adjusting it so it will cut outwards, not inwards may help. One other possible source is that the blade is duller on one side I once fixed my saw by putting in a new blade...
 

john11139

Swarf
Registered
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
9
Likes
1
#20
I have almost the same saw. When I lay a square (standing up) on the clamping area and then raise the saw, it gradually pivots away from a vertical line and when fully raises to cut a 6" is tilts about 1/4" (the arc) I have done all kinds playing with it, new blade, rollers bearings. Finally determined that it is in the pivot and there is no way to adjust that. It was probably cast crooked. Any suggestions.
 

ezduzit

Active User
Registered
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
385
Likes
163
#21
Then adjust the table and fence square to the pivot.
 

bss1

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Jul 27, 2016
Messages
197
Likes
266
#22
I had the same problem with my 5X6. I got it close by adjusting the guides but the head of the saw moved from outside to in on the pivot. I fixed it by selling the saw and buying an Ellis 1600 . Seriously though I couldn't figure out how to fix it. I liked the little saw a lot and had a hard time parting with as well as the additional $, but I'm much happier now with straight cuts.
 

markba633csi

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
2,768
Likes
1,434
#23
I've been rebuilding an older Taiwan 4x6 for several months; just started making test cuts yesterday. They seem to be very sensitive to errors and play in the main pivot. The tension spring magnifies any error as well making it difficult to cut straight from top to bottom (perpendicular to the table). I'm planning some rework on the pivot assembly and replacing the spring with a hydraulic cylinder-should help considerably.
Mark S.
 

Downwindtracker2

Active User
Registered
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
263
Likes
103
#24
With the one at work, a new blade and careful adjustment of the hydraulic down feed. You have to allow the blade to work. I'm hoping to get a square cut from an old 4x6 that I bought well used, so thanks for some ideas. As it is every time I go to use it, I end up fixing something.
 

Silverbullet

Registered
Registered
Joined
May 4, 2015
Messages
3,401
Likes
1,649
#25
I think that saw takes 3/4" blades , the one on there doesn't look wide enough to ride where it's supposed to. That would knock the set right out of a new blade.
 

BGHansen

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Nov 23, 2014
Messages
885
Likes
2,223
#26
Thanks Guys,

Yes it has cut straight.

Standing in front of the saw where the piece cut off would hit your toes, the cut starting from the top goes to the rear. The side to side is square. I did square up the clamps.
I'll do some slower feeding tomorrow.
I replaced the bearings trying to correct this. The outside bearing on each side are elliptically adjustable and I got them set so you have to get the blade aligned pretty good before it will go between them.

I'll be back.
Can you swap the roller guides between the inside and outside? If the cut is angled the opposite direction it'd be in the roller guides. Kinda like having a pull on a car to the left. Swap the front tires side to side and if it pulls to the right, it's in the tires.

Bruce
 

BobinOK

Swarf
Registered
Joined
Nov 8, 2017
Messages
4
Likes
0
#27
Best tip I ever heard was do not try to adjust the rollers with a blade on the saw. Use a piece of old blade cut long enough to span the cut width. The twist in the blade when on the machine will make adjusting the rollers very difficult. Thought I would never get my old Well-Saw cutting straight, ran across this tip and now it cuts within 1/32 through 4 inches of steel.
 
[6]
[5] [7]
Top