Pay a little more, get a little better machine?

WOW...

I knew there was a reason I was taking my time doing the research, rather than just pulling the trigger.

Please put me on the list for one of those new Taiwanese PM45/932 mills... Hopefully with PDF.

As the others have noted... I like the beefier one also... however getting Taiwanese quality in the versatile RF45 design... along with VS, no gearbox, with the power down-feed option... well that is a good mix IMO.

THX

John/GA
 
I see three different machines.

1. That really big one in the background of pics 1&2 that apparently won't be imported.
2. The one in the first picture where the base bolts mount to the top of the base.
3. The one in pictures 2-4 where there are a total of 6 base mounting bolts in pidgeon holes. The column to base joint also looks much more stout than the machine in pic 1. The top of the column is sort of rounded and it appears that the column may be wider than on the machine in pic 1, although photos can fool you sometimes due to lens effects. The column also appears to be deeper in the Y direction if you look at the position of the z axis handwheel.

I am certainly interested in the machine in pictures 2 thru 4 and am looking forward to the details and pricing to be published once PM has a chance to look them over.


I understand the marketing strategy outlined with regards to the big machine that won't be imported, but I personally believe that the basic bed mill design of the big machine in the background is much more suited to a CNC application and most manual applications than a knee mill. Knee mills waste an incredible amount of cast iron to provide the ram, knee, tilt, and other features designed for flexibiltiy that rarely get used. There is also a lot more machining and parts required which raise production expense of the machine. Bed mills lose the knee, lose the tilt, lose the ram. Consequently, the bed mill uses the cast iron available more efficiently to construct the base and column of the machine. You can set up special work holding and/or fixturing to approximate a portion of the tilt and ram operational flexibility provided by the knee mill. I owned a machine shop for 20 years and we never once moved the ram from it's normal orientation. Really, the bed mill is the more appropriate mill for the vast majority of machine functions and the knee mill should be more of a specialty machine.

With a bed mill, the base and the column are essentially one component that is much more rigid than the movable knee of a knee mill. A bed mill is far simpler to build and machine with fewer components than the knee mill.

The last machine I bought for my machine shop was a Lagun knee mill to replace the worn out Johnford knee mill we had. I really didn't want a knee mill, I wanted a smaller manual version of the CNC Milltronics RH bed mill we had but I never found such a machine to exist. The bed mill's rigidity, and suitability for large box ways made it a much more durable and capable machine that would have suited our needs much better than the head tilting flexibility of the knee mill that we never used.

After studying the pictures... I agree there are potentially 3 machines in those pictures...

And as noted by the quoted post... the machine in pics 2,3,4 appeals to me also. A knee mill is not an option to move into my basement shop. A beefier version of an RF 45 clone; Taiwanese made, with VS, no gearbox, more Y travel, power X feed, and of course power down feed... would really be a 'winner' IMO. And this new machine would be a HIT for folks who want to do a CNC build!

Pray tell... were these pics taken at the PM warehouse in Pittsburgh? <grin>
 
For what it's worth, it aint that hard to move a bridgeport alone. The easy thing to do is rent a set of machine jacks for 40 bucks and just jack it up and roll it. I just used a engine lift to set it on pipes and a come along to pull it. I'm just saying, dont miss out on what you want when there are ways around them. Or you could build some machine jacks, but renting is so cheap


That’s one good way! Another good way for one person. I got one of those import cherry pickers and straddled the bp base. Then picked up the bp high enough to turn it 90° and set it down on top of the cherry picker base. Then I was able to roll the bp around using the cherry picker wheels, worked like a charm. Of coarse this would only work on a level, smooth and flat surface...Good Luck.
 
After talking to the folks at Charter Oak and getting my hands on their 'option list' I think I may have to walk back my title to this thread and change it to "pay quite a bit more".

After adding up all the goodies I think I need (want?) on this machine, I'm well north of 5k, and haven't even added a DRO yet! Ouch! It would be a heck of a machine for a hobbyist with limited space though... :)

Bill
 
After talking to the folks at Charter Oak and getting my hands on their 'option list' I think I may have to walk back my title to this thread and change it to "pay quite a bit more".

After adding up all the goodies I think I need (want?) on this machine, I'm well north of 5k, and haven't even added a DRO yet! Ouch! It would be a heck of a machine for a hobbyist with limited space though... :)

Bill

Could you post a link to the website for the machine... THX!
 
Could you post a link to the website for the machine... THX!

Not sure if I should do that? But all you have to do is Google Charter Oak Automation and you'll get the link.

Bill
 
Not sure if I should do that? But all you have to do is Google Charter Oak Automation and you'll get the link.

Bill

THX...

Still have not figured out the upspoken protocal at this forum...

Definitely different than the trades forums of my business.

THX again.
 
Guys,

Have a look at these... Ask questions and I'll tell you what I can answer... The are the 932/45 Taiwanese units I mentioned before. We've had these under wraps for a while and "Da Man" says it's time to talk about them. The people of this list will have a first crack at them. Matt is unable to take questions about these so, please... don't call him... He's really focused on shipping the 1340's and next week, the 932 and 935's...
Ray

Is the currently offered PM-45m-CNC made from one of these Taiwanese mills pictured above?
 
Is the currently offered PM-45m-CNC made from one of these Taiwanese mills pictured above?

I don't believe so. I think it is the same Chinese PM-45 with ball screws and servos. They also offer it in CNC "ready" condition which I think has the ball screws but still is a manual machine. Then when you decide to go CNC you merely add the servos.

I am sure Ray C. can answer for certain, although I haven't seen him on here much lately.
 
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