PM-1127VF-LB Lathe vs PM-1228VF-LB Precision Lathe?

[Tired&Retired]

I'm still trying to work through a rather disturbing incident buying a Chinesium lathe off of Ebay, now trying to work through the return process, and that got me thinking that perhaps I should just get a brand name *quality* small lathe. So I am looking at PM's website and the 1127 or 1228 seem to be the smallest lathes they have with that 1.5" spindle throughput hole I want. I've been reading through the specs and manuals on the website, but I'm not sure how much of the info posted there is up to date. There are some discrepancies between photos and some of the info provided. I've been in email contact with PM over the weekend, but I guess Monday showed up and my latest email with some questions I have are low on the totem pole with fires they may have to address today.

Anyway, I'm reading all I can here and elsewhere about both of the lathes, and paging through youtube videos too. But I would like to solicit some feedback from anyone who may have gone through the same research I am going through and would be interested in their thoughts about why they chose one over the other, or perhaps none of the above. FYI, a larger, heavier lathe is just out of the question. 500 pounds is really stretching the limits as it is. I am a raw newbie hobbyist, with no real use of a lathe in mind except that I just want one for the odd times it would be handy to have, and capable of doing just about anything I am likely to come up with to do with it. I already have a little Emco-Maier Compact 5 lathe that I have had for a long time, that has worked fine for me, up to the point where I wanted to make some handles for a shop press I got and it just wasn't up to the task of handling that 1.5" rod I wanted to use, and knurling the handle ends like I wanted was just beyond it's capabilities.

I can afford to buy either one, just really want to know if the more expensive one is worth the price difference, I guess. What, exactly, makes the 1128 worth more than the 1127?

 

[Aukai]

I have not gone through the spec sheet for the 1127, I own a 1228. When I started I was, and I still am extremely space limited, and only wanted to be able to support my car hobby. When I got the 1228 I did not even have a learners permit to drive the damn thing. I set it up, put it through the startup routine, got familiar with the controls, then.... It sat for 2 years 0 use, it gave me anxiety standing next to it running,,,, 2000 RPM gave me the Willies. The day came, and I had to make something, so I put my big boy britches on, and proceeded to break some carbide inserts, and started figuring things out. Feel, and hearing gave me most feedback. The 1228 has been a very good lathe, now that I have the learners permit, I'm going to get my owners license, and move to a 1340GT. The work I want to do is just a little bigger than the 1228 can handle size wise, I'll have to make room for another 7 to 9". Ask if you have questions

 

[ttabbal]

Looking at the current versions of both, it looks like the 1228 has more gearbox settings, so you don't have to change out gears as much as the 1127. The other big difference is that the 1228 has a brushless DC motor, while the 1127 uses a 3 phase AC motor with VFD. The torque curves are different for the types, and you get a little more capacity on the 1228.

Either one would serve you well, in my view. I have the 1127, but I can see why the gearbox options might make the 1228 a nice option. I didn't mind the change gears much, but they were annoying enough that I built an electronic lead screw.

One thing to consider if you don't already have a stand/bench for the lathe, the 1236 comes with a stand. That narrows the price difference a fair bit. It is heavier, but with a engine hoist or some other lifting device, moving them isn't a big issue. And weight gives you rigidity.

 

[Tired&Retired]

I believe I am going to go with the 1228. Been watching quite a number of videos on YouTube featuring this lathe, and I like what I am seeing.

Question, though. I know this is still going to be a Chinese made lathe, but with it coming through PM, will I still have to take it apart, deburring and cleaning up everything like I see people typically doing with Chinese made lathes? I know I will have to check alignments, but does PM have enough pull with their sources in China that "de-junking" the lathe isn't something that their customers have to do?

 

[ttabbal]

I checked a few things on mine, and was happy with how it came from the factory. Other than cleanup of the shipping grease that you would expect, it was in good shape. No deburring was needed. Once it's on the bench/stand you have to align/level it, but you have to do that with any lathe. I did not find any sand from casting in the gearbox etc. like the worst horror stories.

I did have to file the key on the change gear sleeves a little, the fit was so tight you would have to near press them in. They need to be snug, no play, but should slide if you get the alignment right. It only took a few minutes to get them to that point.

 

[Aukai]

They test run it if I'm not mistaken, Mine would not run on arrival. The door safty latch was not contacting, so i took it off of the door, and put the spade in the switch, and it ran.

 

[Tired&Retired]

I just found the following post, and it made that warm fuzzy feeling about buying the 1228, well, not quite so warm nor quite so fuzzy;

As an owner of a PM1228VFLB...be sure to check out the machine well when it arrives. If the delivery crate is damaged at all, or the unit is the least bit dirty, do yourself a favor and send it back before getting attached. I wish I had. Despite its problems, I've still been able to make a lot of cool stuff on it, just not to the quality even a machine this size/heritage should be capable of; the PM1228VF is on paper, probably the best turn-key layout a new guy looking to learn could ask for.

-My feed rod (not lead screw) was cut about .04" off center so it binds/loads the apron & gears as it turns, which wouldn't be more than a wear/noise issue except
-The underside of the near-side ways where the gibs clamp were very badly machined* at the headstock (most used) end, so I basically don't have gib pressure controlling the apron from lifting up with every turn of the feed rod most of the time; causing waves in every feature cut using power feed (especially when apron center mass is past the near-side way). Cut-spring is also made cripplingly terrible because of this, a repeated-.001" slide adjustment in X will return anywhere from a .000" to .005" change in diameter depending on cutting parameters (tool, speed, feed, material, stock size, Z position, etc)
-The clamp for the steady rest is absolute garbage; it will break the instant you apply torque to the bolt. Make a solid steel replacement
-The change-gear knobs are really stupid. As we all know, the gears never mesh that easily with these low-end Chinese geartrains, so oil-slicked round knobs were an awful feature, but obviously cheaper than drilling & tapping them for lever arms like every other lathe out there
-I understand they never did get a thread dial working for these; mine never arrived as promised at the time of purchase, but I recall reading here that it was useless for those who did receive one subsequently (either wrong number of teeth, or a stupid division of the dial face)
-The tension-set device in the cross slide is garbage, and will break the instant you try to reduce backlash in X; sadly I don't think there is a workaround without making a duplicate of proper steel or bronze/delrin. It's a very crude way to reduce backlash anyway, so a replacement scheme is better.
-All gib adjustment grub screws are garbage & will split their heads when any tool torque is applied. Outboard gib adjustment is flatly obnoxious since the screws on the underside are almost inaccessible but still come loose (that's more a general critique of this design style, but the loosening is definitely due to screw quality)
-Lathe stand is too flimsy to properly mount the machine. Namely, the bracing across the two pillars/cabinets, which themselves are quite solid. My machine immediately cut better as far as chatter/finish quality when I built a 1" welded tube stand & bolted it down. The two cabinets will support a bench grinder and (one day) band saw, as they are sufficiently rigid for that.

The motor power is very nice for something you can run from an AC outlet. It's been reliable as far as its performance has been consistent, and very easy to learn on, and the accessories it came with were fairly decent. The T-slot slide is incredibly nice as far as modularity, and simple threaded-post tool holder mount far better than the usual T-slot. It even runs pretty quiet, especially if yours doesn't have an egg-shaped drive train. The tailstock is fairly solid for its size and can be rigidly clamped to the ways. The features that weren't screwed up on mine seem accurate enough. But it is not a nice machine by any stretch; the paint will soften & fall off the moment Vactra is applied to the ways, the castings are even rougher than the gear surfaces, the oil ports will constantly leak and burp oil, and you'll be forever re-tightening every Chinese-made threaded feature on the rig. If your machine has the problems mine does, you'll be frustrated by the obvious missed potential the machine should have already (as opposed to merely lusting for the capability of larger machines like most hobbyists). If your machine was built to advertised spec and lacks these problems, it's a very good format for an introductory lathe provided you have the room, and before you know it you'll have a garage full of chucks, tool holders, collets, and Morse taper accessories (actually you'll have that even if it sucks, lol)

It's large enough that you can make a useful milling attachment for it; I used one to cut dovetails in steel for a 5.5"OD ball turner, and rectangular pockets in aluminum for a monocore silencer baffle. With proper gib tension and proper design, I suspect a downright functional mill setup could be attained.

TCB

*"Machined" is the wrong term; there are angle-grinder marks all over the underside of the ways about 1/16" deep at most, where they obviously knocked too much material off getting the casting prepared for surface grinding. I don't totally hold it against QMT since the factory filled in the gouges with Bondo paste which didn't soften & slough off for about a month. At first I thought it was merely paint-drips, which were present on all the other wear surfaces of the machine. The top-side grinding was nice enough, the underside grinding is at an angle that gets looser toward the headstock, which further compounds the gib-pressure issue. Basically, I can adjust the gibs to sort of work at the left 10" & be too tight to use the right 10", or to work at the right 10" & be useless for the remainder.

Anyone else had this sort of experience with the two lathes I am looking at from PM, or was this just a lemon that people sometimes get from any sort of device more complicated than a can opener?

 

[Aukai]

I did not have any issues with my 1228 other than the belt should b changed ASAP, and the door closed safety mechanism worked open or closed. The spade had to be removed from the door, and slid into the receiver. To be functional one or the other would need to be relocated.

 

[Tired&Retired]

How tall is going to be too tall for a worktable to set a 12x28 on? I bought a sturdy worktable that is 38 inches tall. The 12x28 is 19 inches tall, and I am 5'9" or so from top to bottom. Maybe I've shrunk some as I have aged, I haven't measured. But I did put on a little bit more girth to make up for it. So I'm trying to visualize where that will put the chuck and tailstock work line in relation to my eyeballs.

With the stand that would be available for the 12x28 the top of the lathe would be at 49 inches, if I remember correctly. On the work table I have, that height will be at 57 inches. Yeah, I know, this is one of those "it depends" sorts of questions, but I sure do hate to find out after I have drilled mounting holes and put the lathe on the table that I screwed up. I mean, looking at the figures it SEEMS like it will be OK, but I am wondering if anyone else had this sort of issue concerning working height.

Is there a good reason why lathes tend to be low slung when on their recommended stands? At least the ones I have looked at, anyway.

 

[Tired&Retired]

I did not have any issues with my 1228 other than the belt should b changed ASAP, and the door closed safety mechanism worked open or closed. The spade had to be removed from the door, and slid into the receiver. To be functional one or the other would need to be relocated.

Just out of curiosity, why did your belt need to be changed ASAP? I presume a spare one isn't included with the lathe, so did you have to buy a new one?

And is that safety lock out on the door a design flaw, or was it damaged in shipping?