PM-1127VF-LB - The long wait.....

Rich Z said:
Actually I think the price on the 1127 went up right after I ordered one.

I suspect that this is just the beginning. Once all manufacturing in the USA has been completely gutted by Chinese competition (more than it already is), things are going to get REAL interesting. Heck, I'm thinking that anything stamped with "Made in America" is going to be a valuable collectible sometime down the road.
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The real issue is the value of the US dollar vs other currencies. The issue is getting critical over there and just like any other business man, they can only do so much to absorb costs before they raise prices. In the case of Matt, his transportation broker searches the world over trying to find the best deals on cargo transport. So far, that is the only option that Matt has in which to make-up for incrementally higher prices. BTW, prices have increased on him many times and he's managed to not raise sticker prices. He's always found other resourceful ways to make-up the difference. This time, his back is against the wall because the increases were not trivial. Jacking the price of a machine by 40 bucks is no laughing matter when you're dealing with paper thin margins...


Ray
 
I can understand Matt's angst. It is clearly something that affects most small businesses. Was once there myself with a computer business I started and ran for about ten years. Weighing wholesale cost, transportation, inventory levels and costs, market place, and demand against retail price is a tough exercise. We assembled computers out of boards and modules purchased overseas. At first, it was easy to compete against IBM and the like because they were expensive and IBM totally ignored the home computer market. As demand increased, many other companies got into the business and were more competitive because of size, better financing, and ability to buy in large quantities. We next went into high end computers built for specific applications, and to a degree, networking. Eventually everything became a commodity and there was no place for a business such as mine. All this took place 15 years ago when computers cost upwards of $2500 and only stayed current for 12 months or so. Today, the same item is $600 and for many, never becomes outdated - doesn't get replaced until it dies. I don't even build compters for myself anymore - I can buy assembled ones cheaper.

Machine tools are probably never going to be a commodity but the same principles apply. Customers, private and commercial, generally want something and they want it NOW!! I have no idea what Matt's business plan looks like but it would certainly be worth looking at sales vs inventory level. Doing things like ordering more inventory and renting storage lockers on a monthly as needed basis might be one way to manage this. His advertising is good and word of mouth ratings from customers is superb, but I suspect more sales are being lost because of low inventory levels than he realizes. I decided to pull the trigger on a larger machine (PM1127VF-LB) up from a 3 in 1 late last summer and eventually got tired of waiting when I learned there would be a delay lasting almost into early this summer. I bought an 12x37 from Smithy instead. Honestly, I was so impressed by everything I read about the 1127VF that I would have gladly paid $100 more to get my hands on one in a reasonable time frame.

Perhaps a survey on the hobby and home machinist boards would reveal that others wouldn't mind paying a little more (3% or so) for better availability and Matt could seek out a creative way to deal with his dilemma of high demand and low inventory. I suspect that profit on a couple of machines alone would cover additional inventory costs and any more would be increased profit. Customers don't need reasons why they can't get what they want, they just want product. Lost sales are bad for business. In truth, I would even consider selling the 12x37 that delivers tomorrow sometime later in the fall if I could be assured they would be available because I would rather have one of Matt's machines.

One other thing. I started my computer business because I knew a lot about computers and figured that was all I needed to know to run a business. I quickly found I had to separate myself from day to day production, stop being a technician, and become a manager if I wanted to thrive. Turns out running a small business is a lot more about management than a product expert. That epiphany helped me keep going for a decade until Walmart selling computers put me out of business.


Steve
 
Just so you know, Matt and Nicole are indeed looking to get additional warehouse space. Matt is located near the Pittsburgh airport and available warehouse space is far-apart and few in-between. When I visited the area (for the first time in my life) last week, I was absolutely amazed at how "high-density" the area is. -And keep in mind, I was born, raised and lived in Chicago for 40 years before moving to Maryland 15 years ago. I have a pretty good concept of "high density"... Man, Pittsburgh is one crazy place to drive and it is crowded as far that kind of city goes...

Matt is indeed trying to expand his business -and he's pretty clever about managing his factory orders etc...


Ray
 
Should be lots of those storage locker parks near an industrial area. If he has the space, a sea shipping container makes great storage and can be rented or purchased to put onsite. Just a comment but I think the long pole in the tent for Matt is lies more in stock levels and storage than cleverness with suppliers, given the very long delays in order lead time and transportation. At least that is the classic solution. Sometimes a loan from the SBA or a bank line of credit is the other piece of the solution. Once in a while I would get $100,000+ orders for computers with short lead times and the rented shipping container and floating bank line of credit was how I solved things.
 
Steve M: I suspect you and I are in the minority when it comes to willingness to pay a little extra for quality. I'll use HF for my evidence. ;)

I've actually had people email me to tell me that they can get the (supposedly) same machine at HF cheaper, and when I reply that the quality levels can't possibly be the same at such disparaging price points, the response is either "I don't care" or disbelief.

To many in the hobbyist/home machinist market, price is indeed everything. Everyone says they want quality, but some want it only at the cheapest price possible. I read posts on here all the time talking about sticking it to/taking advantage of some guy trying to sell a machine. I'll probably never sell my little machines for that reason. I'll cut 'em up first.

Bill
 
wrmiller19 said:
To many in the hobbyist/home machinist market, price is indeed everything. Everyone says they want quality, but some want it only at the cheapest price possible. I read posts on here all the time talking about sticking it to/taking advantage of some guy trying to sell a machine. I'll probably never sell my little machines for that reason. I'll cut 'em up first.

Bill
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... "I'll cut e'm up first"... ROLF! :rofl: -Amen brother!


Ray
 
I guess I do have to wonder just high the demand is for these 1127s. Maybe there really is very little demand for them, which is why the order to receipt timeframe is so long. Is there a minimum order number from the manufacturer? I would think so, to make shipping worthwhile. That would make sense to explain the length of time, because an order wouldn't be placed till that minimum number has been met. If you order right after the last order was placed, tough luck on you. You have to wait till the numbers add up, and you are now THE worst case scenario.

As some of you pointed out, any business needs to be able strike while the fire is hot when a customer comes knocking on the door. I don't think anyone can afford to just lose business because they don't have the inventory available. Honestly, had I known that the 10 to 12 weeks was going to be nowhere accurate when I placed the order, I probably would not have done so.

I guess I have to just wait it out, as I've already been waiting about 5 months now, and hope something doesn't come up that puts a higher priority on that money I already have in limbo. Or just lose interest in this altogether. I have several hobbies that seem to go in and out of interest in rotation over the years. Plus I am at the age where you are just one doctor's visit away from possibly getting really bad news some day that changes every thing.
 
Rich Z said:
I guess I do have to wonder just high the demand is for these 1127s. Maybe there really is very little demand for them, which is why the order to receipt timeframe is so long. Is there a minimum order number from the manufacturer? I would think so, to make shipping worthwhile. That would make sense to explain the length of time, because an order wouldn't be placed till that minimum number has been met. If you order right after the last order was placed, tough luck on you. You have to wait till the numbers add up, and you are now THE worst case scenario.

As some of you pointed out, any business needs to be able strike while the fire is hot when a customer comes knocking on the door. I don't think anyone can afford to just lose business because they don't have the inventory available. Honestly, had I known that the 10 to 12 weeks was going to be nowhere accurate when I placed the order, I probably would not have done so.

I guess I have to just wait it out, as I've already been waiting about 5 months now, and hope something doesn't come up that puts a higher priority on that money I already have in limbo. Or just lose interest in this altogether. I have several hobbies that seem to go in and out of interest in rotation over the years. Plus I am at the age where you are just one doctor's visit away from possibly getting really bad news some day that changes every thing.
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Rich,

This model is extremely popular; about the same as the 1236 and 1340GT. It's one of the better selling models and is common with prototype shops.

The one that PM carries is not the same and does not come from the same factory as the ones that other popular distributors sell; if that were the case, the order would be fulfilled by now. Matt orders these in quantity from the original factory that started making this design -they have a much better quality product. Sadly, the last batch he got from them had a defect and they were rejected. These units have grade 7 bearings, not grade 5... other things too... The copy that is commonly sold by other places is a joke compared to this machine.

If you want a 1236 to make up for your troubles, it's yours for the asking. -And if you feel the Grim Reaper doesn't want you to work on this lathe, you can indeed cancel the order... No questions asked...

Ray...
 
Ray C said:
Rich,

This model is extremely popular; about the same as the 1236 and 1340GT. It's one of the better selling models and is common with prototype shops.

The one that PM carries is not the same and does not come from the same factory as the ones that other popular distributors sell; if that were the case, the order would be fulfilled by now. Matt orders these in quantity from the original factory that started making this design -they have a much better quality product. Sadly, the last batch he got from them had a defect and they were rejected. These units have grade 7 bearings, not grade 5... other things too... The copy that is commonly sold by other places is a joke compared to this machine.

If you want a 1236 to make up for your troubles, it's yours for the asking. -And if you feel the Grim Reaper doesn't want you to work on this lathe, you can indeed cancel the order... No questions asked...

Ray...
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Wow... Rich, if you can make a 1236 work, go for it dude! If you don't want it, can you have it shipped to my house? :roflmao:

Bill
 
Another interested party here for the 1127. I have the PM932 and I really enjoy using it! Seems like when Matt does get stock in, he has a few extra so I just plan on watching til he re-ups on the lathes, then jump on a machine if I can afford it at the time :)
Matts prices are great! Even if it may be a tiny bit more than HF or something along those lines, the extra effort he puts into each machine makes it worth it IMHO.
 
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