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PM-30 Z-axis power feed?

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mcdanlj

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I am waiting for the next shipment of PM-30MVs to arrive, which I understand is any day now, for my order to be filled. I ordered the X-axis power feed, but there is no Z-axis power feed available from QMT/PM. I searched on this site and more generally with google, and I don't see any discussion of any Z-axis power feed for the PM-30, just other people asking. Maybe my powers of search are weak today, in which case I would appreciate a pointer, and maybe this post will help the next searcher find what they are looking for!

Otherwise, do any PM-30 owners have shop-made Z power feed solutions they can share? Pictures, ideas, warnings, anything? Anyone who thought they would want one and then discovered that they just didn't care after all? If so, ideas why?

Thanks!
 

WyoGreen

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#2
I just added a power feed to my PM-30 but don't have a picture handy right now. You might take a look at the PM-25 posts, one of them has quite a few photos of their power feed. I'll get some pictures of mine posted one of these days.

Steve
 

mcdanlj

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#3
@WyoGreen — Thanks! Did you decide to preserve handwheel Z feed and add power feed, or did you just replace the handwheel with a motor?
 

WyoGreen

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I replaced the handwheel with a motor. it's pretty easy to change back if needed. With the gear reduction motor, it would be impossible to use a handwheel. I'll start up a thread and post some pictures.

Steve
 

mcdanlj

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Thanks for your thread! I had been thinking about a large stepper motor, and using a timing belt with some reduction, depending on the actual torque required. If I did that, the handle would still work when the stepper isn't powered. But just buying a gearhead motor is probably simpler. ☺
 

T Bredehoft

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#6
I used a gearhead motor on my PM25, because the head moves .008 when I clamp the Z gibs, I feel that there's no use for manual or fine feed on the head. I bore with a crank/handle on the quill feed.
 

alfaspider

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I am waiting for the next shipment of PM-30MVs to arrive, which I understand is any day now, for my order to be filled. I ordered the X-axis power feed, but there is no Z-axis power feed available from QMT/PM. I searched on this site and more generally with google, and I don't see any discussion of any Z-axis power feed for the PM-30, just other people asking. Maybe my powers of search are weak today, in which case I would appreciate a pointer, and maybe this post will help the next searcher find what they are looking for!

Otherwise, do any PM-30 owners have shop-made Z power feed solutions they can share? Pictures, ideas, warnings, anything? Anyone who thought they would want one and then discovered that they just didn't care after all? If so, ideas why?

Thanks!
**********************************

Not sure if the PM30 is much heavier than the PM25?

But my first project was to make a Z motor drive for a PM25 as the DRO monitor interferes with using the Z hand crank.


This may appear crude, but works well and the wiper motor has enough torque. This motor runs at 100rpm, so not CNC stepper motor speed, but OK for me.

I followed a previous thread on this forum, but changed the components to use inexpensive starter motor gears from Briggs-Stratton lawn mowers which are about $1.25 each and an ebay motor that was $20 with free shipping.

The angle iron frame is bolted directly on top of the cover plate for the Z drive crank handle, so no factory parts were altered. Had to use longer cap head screws to secure the angle iron bracket to the column. The factory DRO interferes with using the Z hand crank, so I was trying to make the assembly as "thin" or less wide as possible.

To cover up the ugly mess, I also made a metal cover and painted it to match the motor housing cover.

Tin barn utube video has a more elaborate Z drive with a heavy duty motor, but I found this 12v wiper motor to be adequate for both the Z and a table motor drive that I also use.

Hope this helps,
 

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mcdanlj

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Not sure if the PM30 is much heavier than the PM25?
It's almost twice as heavy (listed at 530 vs. 275 for the PM-25), but I don't know how much of that weight is in the head. The spec differences were why I didn't just assume that a design for the PM-25 would necessarily work well on the PM-30, though! ☺
 

alfaspider

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It's almost twice as heavy (listed at 530 vs. 275 for the PM-25), but I don't know how much of that weight is in the head. The spec differences were why I didn't just assume that a design for the PM-25 would necessarily work well on the PM-30, though! ☺
==

OK

Perhaps you have seen this?


Heavy duty motor for more lift torque, but looks like all PMs have hand crank on upper left side? This conflicted with the DRO monitor, so the gear setup saved space.

Looked at the PM website, and the heads of both mills appear similar- so is weight differential in the base and the column?
 

mcdanlj

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...but looks like all PMs have hand crank on upper left side?
That video shows lower left for PM-727, as does the site for the PM-727, PM-932, and PM-940. The PM-833T has lower right. PM-25 and PM-30 are upper right. I don't see any PM bench mills that have Z crank on upper left; that seems to be the only option that is not used! ☺

Looked at the PM website, and the heads of both mills appear similar- so is weight differential in the base and the column?
I'm guessing that the quill DROs and spindle motor control boxes are the same between the PM-25 and PM-30, which would mean the PM-30 head is substantially larger. At this point I've never seen either mill in real life, so I'm just going by the pictures. But compare the following two images:

25-head.jpg 30-head.jpg
Note that the electrical control boxes are very similar other than the speed control markings, and the DROs look almost identical, yet on the PM-25 the electrical control box is nearly as tall as the head whereas it's about ¾ of the height of the PM-30 head, and the DRO scale is about 17% of the width of the head on the PM-25 but only about 13% of the width of the head on the PM-30, which would make the head wider as well as taller.

The spindle travel on the PM-25 is 2 inches, and the spindle travel on the PM-25 is 3 inches. More head height, more spindle material.

The motor on the PM-25 is advertised at 1HP (at 110V), and the motor on the PM-30 is advertised at 2HP (at 220V) so I expect that contributes more weight to the PM-30 head as well.

I expect Matt could fill in more precise information! ☺
 

alfaspider

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That video shows lower left for PM-727, as does the site for the PM-727, PM-932, and PM-940. The PM-833T has lower right. PM-25 and PM-30 are upper right. I don't see any PM bench mills that have Z crank on upper left; that seems to be the only option that is not used! ☺



I'm guessing that the quill DROs and spindle motor control boxes are the same between the PM-25 and PM-30, which would mean the PM-30 head is substantially larger. At this point I've never seen either mill in real life, so I'm just going by the pictures. But compare the following two images:

View attachment 274983 View attachment 274984
Note that the electrical control boxes are very similar other than the speed control markings, and the DROs look almost identical, yet on the PM-25 the electrical control box is nearly as tall as the head whereas it's about ¾ of the height of the PM-30 head, and the DRO scale is about 17% of the width of the head on the PM-25 but only about 13% of the width of the head on the PM-30, which would make the head wider as well as taller.

The spindle travel on the PM-25 is 2 inches, and the spindle travel on the PM-25 is 3 inches. More head height, more spindle material.

The motor on the PM-25 is advertised at 1HP (at 110V), and the motor on the PM-30 is advertised at 2HP (at 220V) so I expect that contributes more weight to the PM-30 head as well.

I expect Matt could fill in more precise information! ☺

yes- crank handle is on upper right side-- my typo mistake. I used this gear drive set up as the hand crank interfered with the factory installed DRO monitor

The wiper motor I used has no trouble with upper travel, so not sure what is the limit-- Tin Barn did a "flintstone" lift on one video and could calculate the weight that his motor could lift. Wiper motor I used was a $19 ebay auto product, so I figured it was worth a try without major re-testing. And, it did work-- If you can get a weight figure for the head on the 30 let me know. If you also can get a weight for the 25 as well, I can add some metal bars to top of my housing and see if this VW wiper motor can lift it.. I bought 2 more of these motors incase one craps out in the near term...
 

mcdanlj

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#12
Didn't mean to be annoying about the typo, it was just funny! ☺

It's really a question of torque. I can just measure torque with a wrench whenever the mill arrives and figure speed and mechanical advantage as needed. I don't even know whether the PM-25 and PM-30 use the same internal gear ratio so weight isn't the only factor. I was wondering more about mechanical concerns for attachment than motor torque honestly, and it looks like PM-25 and PM-30 are indeed similar there. Hearing that the DRO really does interfere with the handle (I had wondered) means I'm likely to get to this sooner than I would otherwise. Thanks all!
 

alfaspider

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Didn't mean to be annoying about the typo, it was just funny! ☺

It's really a question of torque. I can just measure torque with a wrench whenever the mill arrives and figure speed and mechanical advantage as needed. I don't even know whether the PM-25 and PM-30 use the same internal gear ratio so weight isn't the only factor. I was wondering more about mechanical concerns for attachment than motor torque honestly, and it looks like PM-25 and PM-30 are indeed similar there. Hearing that the DRO really does interfere with the handle (I had wondered) means I'm likely to get to this sooner than I would otherwise. Thanks all!
===


30-----
https://www.precisionmatthews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Front-Left-nostand.jpg

25------
https://www.precisionmatthews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/PM-25-nostand-web.jpg

The hand crank mounts on the "upper left side" of these mills (if looking from the back side) -- also appear to be a bit different? The 25 has a larger more flush mounted plate with a round "boss" while the 30 has a square mount that protrudes from the column.
 
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