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Question for the ISO guys

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P. Waller

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Received this old drawing this morning to quote the parts, it includes a few symbols that I am unfamiliar with. This is a photo of the drawing sent by the customer so the explination may be on the drawing yet not in the picture as taken.
There is a 42 MM thread 12 MM long then an undercut 3 MM wide up to a 44 MM diameter. After the undercut there are dotted dimension lines labeled 1 and 3, I do not see any features that they apply to.
2 of the inside surfaces have three triangles attached to them which I suspect is a surface finish callout. The dimensions circled in blue are the changes that are needed, the 3MM diameter becomes 7 MM and the 4 MM diameter becomes 9 MM
 

vtcnc

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I don’t know how you hold the 23mm, 6mm, 22mm & 5mm if the 3mm & 4mm are changing to 7mm & 9mm.

Regarding the 1mm & 3mm:

Total guess...but is it a knurled feature centered on that 5mm wide shoulder? Or locations for flats used for wrenching the nozzle during assembly?

Edit: assuming the angle must remain constant.

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mmcmdl

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Looks like our filler nozzles down the soap plant . I believe you are correct on the surface finish triangles P . I'll check the GTD book in an hour so when I get into work . I also agree you're going to lose the length of the 23mm when you open up the bores . The engineer most likely missed this when he made the revision . Looks like they are going to improve their flow capabilities .

An O ring seal most likely fits in the undercut and the finish marks tend to tell me they don't want bacteria growing in a poor finish , that IS if this indeed is a filler nozzle .
 
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P. Waller

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I don’t know how you hold the 23mm, 6mm, 22mm & 5mm if the 3mm & 4mm are changing to 7mm & 9mm.

Regarding the 1mm & 3mm:

Total guess...but is it a knurled feature centered on that 5mm wide shoulder? Or locations for flats used for wrenching the nozzle during assembly?


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Not a modifaction, new parts from nylon, I am not looking forward to this chip nightmare.

These are injection nozzles for the food manufacturing industry, they want a larger small end, the 3 MM bore becomes 7 MM..

You did however answer the other question, we have samples of several other parts from the same manufacturer that have wrench flats milled on them, this now makes sense. Thank you very much. As I mentioned we did not receive the entire drawing.
 

mmcmdl

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Yep , look at my edit above . Food grade . ;)
 

P. Waller

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Looks like our filler nozzles down the soap plant . I believe you are correct on the surface finish triangles P . I'll check the GTD book in an hour so when I get into work . I also agree you're going to lose the length of the 23mm when you open up the bores . The engineer most likely missed this when he made the revision . Looks like they are going to improve their flow capabilities .

An O ring seal most likely fits in the undercut and the finish marks tend to tell me they don't want bacteria growing in a poor finish , that IS if this indeed is a filler nozzle .
Thanks, these eject product onto stuffed pretzels so I am not terribly concerned about the overall geometry only about the fit into the existing machines, the thread and any other features that will effect this.
 

mmcmdl

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If barstock would fit thru your cnc spindle bore it would be a fairly easy job . Stringy chips yes , but easy on the tools . The only important dimensions I see that would make a difference would be from the thread shoulder to the nozzle end for stack height .

So ………………..maybe we the consumer will be getting MORE of whatever they are stuffing into these pretels ?? :encourage:
 

P. Waller

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If barstock would fit thru your cnc spindle bore it would be a fairly easy job . Stringy chips yes , but easy on the tools . The only important dimensions I see that would make a difference would be from the thread shoulder to the nozzle end for stack height .

So ………………..maybe we the consumer will be getting MORE of whatever they are stuffing into these pretels ?? :encourage:
2 1/16 thru spindle machine so not a problem there, the chips will be a nightmare I suspect. The set up and programming is simple, I could bang out hundreds of these per day in POM but nylon will surely prove troublesome from the added joy of unbreakable chips in the bore, may have to hand program a bunch of feed dwells to break them which will be a good deal of finger CAD on a 25 year old machine, you have to do what you have to do however (-:
 

middle.road

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Use a sharp HSS bit and if you can utilize a jet of air and that should blow the chip string away from the cutter and prevent the usual 'birds nest'.
That way you won't have to have many dwells in the code.
IMO the delrin will be easier that regular nylon.

PS: GADS, that is an atrocious drawing.......
 

P. Waller

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Use a sharp HSS bit and if you can utilize a jet of air and that should blow the chip string away from the cutter and prevent the usual 'birds nest'.
That way you won't have to have many dwells in the code.
IMO the delrin will be easier that regular nylon.

PS: GADS, that is an atrocious drawing.......
No chance of using HS tooling just ground solid carbide.
175 parts with 2 different nozzle sizes.
The drawing came from this British company https://www.rheon.com/en/products/?id=36
It is entirely possible that it is 40 years old or more which would explain a lot.
 

P. Waller

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Bloody hell, haven't made the first 175 parts yet and they ordered more, I will be up to my butt in unbreakable nylon chips for the next week or two.
 

P. Waller

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It began today, the first of 4 different sized parts.
No drawing supplied just a sample with a hand written note of the changes in the nozzle opening from 9 MM to 7 MM, all other dimensions remain the same.

Made this drawing from the sample this morning, there are more dimensions then needed but they are helpful when actually making the part from both ends, there are dimensions omitted that are not required for the lathe work.

As suspected the chips are a nightmare of stringiness, (is this even a word?) The turning and threading went well, the boring not so much, the .275" Diameter X 3.160 depth is posing a problem as you may imagine.

 

mmcmdl

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One or two set-ups P ?
 

P. Waller

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One or two set-ups P ?
No other way to do it, 3" solid round.

Turned the OD and thread then drilled and bored the ID.
Made a threaded fixture for the chuck, screwed them in then turned the small end. I suppose it could be done in one setup if we had a lathe with a sub spindle to support the large end while the small end is turned and parted.
We don't so I didn't (-:
 

mmcmdl

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That's the way I would've run that part . ( actually , that's the way I did make those parts , but mine were stainless ) . I was wondering if you plugged that front end for a little support if the part could take the reverse tapering of the OD . I figured it wouldn't , so 2 set-ups .....................................and lots of stringy $ hit ! LOL , hope you aren't running a chip conveyor under that machine !! That's loads of fun getting that in-wound from everything . :grin:
 

P. Waller

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Nylon, very little load on the part when finishing so did not need to support the small end, the chips were not nearly as bad as I had anticipated once the feed rates were bumped up to reasonable levels. Still not fun however.

The time estimate was 5.90 hours for six parts, it took every bit of 10 hours with fixturing, tool making and programming.

Had to make a holder for a 3/16 diameter boring bar that would reach 3.160" deep.
 
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