Ran into a die issue today

Aukai

Aukai

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I was in the process of prefixing a Colman rolling cooler. The wheels are mounted on a 5/16" metal shaft, and have pressed on one way sleeves to keep the wheels on. There are no replacement wheels, you need to buy a new cooler if one is lost. Think sending one through baggage through the airlines. My normal routine is to thread the shaft, and use washers, and nylock nuts. My tap, and die sets are not all that well used, and today my Chraftsman die would not start no matter what. I tapered the end of the shaft, no help. My Irwin had no problem, caught right away, and did the threads. Proper orientation was checked kinda strange, again no visible issues with the Craftsman die. Any thoughts?
 
The starter threads on the die may be dull, Aukai. You may not be able to see it but a sharp die will bite immediately on the end of a tapered shaft. This is assuming the taper allows the die to engage and the shaft is not hardened. I suggest you replace the die.
 
Kinda my thoughts, I even flipped it around, no go, thank you. If this one got "dull" with minimal use, recommendations on another brand?
 
Was your die HSS or carbon steel?

Reason I ask is because years ago (when I didn't know any better) I purchased a cheap Mastercraft tap & die set that was carbon steel. Worked alright at first in aluminum & brass, but quickly deteriorated once I started using them on harder stuff like O1 drill rod, stainless & 4130 CrMoly. Even if I did manage to get the die to cut, the threads turned out kinda rough & "fuzzy-like"....if that makes any sense? Like you, I checked the die & the cutting edges "seemed" fine, but obviously something wasn't right at all....and to be honest, unless there was a big chunk missing out of the die, I really had no idea what else I was supposed to be looking for that could be wrong.

Talked to a machinist buddy of mine about it & he told me to make sure all my taps/dies were always HSS. Personally, I couldn't see what the big deal was, but regardless, I purchased a 1/4-20 HSS die anyway to finish my little project. Worked beautifully! Nice, clean- cut threads & way less force needed to cut the threads compared to my crappy carbon steel die.

Since then, I've been slowly replacing all of my carbon taps/dies with HSS as the jobs/sizes present themselves & have never looked back.

Hope this helps!
 
I totally agree with Todd. Most big box tap and die sets are carbon steel and they work ... just maybe not for long. A HSS set is the way to go but a new set is big bucks!

Just about everyone who makes taps also makes HSS dies - Irwin-Hanson, Greenfield, Cleveland, Titex, OSG, Gurhing, etc. Some of them make cobalt dies and price them accordingly.

I have a HSS Irwin-Hanson set that cost way more than the carbon steel one and it works well. It is my "use it first" set and has lasted many years.

The older Crafstman Kromedge tap and die sets were HSS but you can only get them on ebay. These were actually very good sets that lasted for many years when used properly. If you watch for it, you can get a good set there for a decent price. Try to find a set that wasn't used too much; hopefully the seller will be honest about it.

I also have a full set of Imperial adjustable button dies up to 1/2" that is used in my tailstock die holder for use on the lathe. If I could only have one set, it would be this set. These have a split on one side of the die that allows you to adjust the fit of the thread; its finicky but sometimes it can save your butt. Good to have but these are the highest in cost. Cobalt is even more!

Rather than buy a full set, which costs a lot of money, you can buy individual HSS dies as Todd suggests. It is more economical and over time you will accumulate what you need. Maybe replace that one that messed up your rod for now and wait for a Kromedge set?
 
mikey said:
I totally agree with Todd. Most big box tap and die sets are carbon steel and they work ... just maybe not for long. A HSS set is the way to go but a new set is big bucks!

Just about everyone who makes taps also makes HSS dies - Irwin-Hanson, Greenfield, Cleveland, Titex, OSG, Gurhing, etc. Some of them make cobalt dies and price them accordingly.

I have a HSS Irwin-Hanson set that cost way more than the carbon steel one and it works well. It is my "use it first" set and has lasted many years.

The older Crafstman Kromedge tap and die sets were HSS but you can only get them on ebay. These were actually very good sets that lasted for many years when used properly. If you watch for it, you can get a good set there for a decent price. Try to find a set that wasn't used too much; hopefully the seller will be honest about it.

I also have a full set of Imperial adjustable button dies up to 1/2" that is used in my tailstock die holder for use on the lathe. If I could only have one set, it would be this set. These have a split on one side of the die that allows you to adjust the fit of the thread; its finicky but sometimes it can save your butt. Good to have but these are the highest in cost. Cobalt is even more!

Rather than buy a full set, which costs a lot of money, you can buy individual HSS dies as Todd suggests. It is more economical and over time you will accumulate what you need. Maybe replace that one that messed up your rod for now and wait for a Kromedge set?
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I have two old school Craftsman Kromedge tap and die sets, imperial and metric, bought them new about 40+ years ago. They are still going strong, none broken or chipped, all still cut good threads. The metric ones are mostly unused, the imperial ones have had quite a bit of use, most of it chasing existing threads. If you can find an old set in good condition, jump on them! They do not say they are HSS anywhere on the tools or the packaging, all I know is that they are very nice tools, as good as my old GTD, Butterfield, and other quality brands. The dies are hexagon ones, but are dies, not thread chasers, and work well for cutting new threads, even on harder and tougher steels, and the hex configuration makes them quite useful for re-threading in tight locations, like engine compartments.
 
Thank you very much for all of the information, very helpful. I'll keep my eyes open on Ebay for any deals.
 
Aukai, is there a chance your Craftsman die is for a left-hand thread? That might explain why it wouldn't work, even if it looks sharp.
 
Sheather said:
Aukai, is there a chance your Craftsman die is for a left-hand thread? That might explain why it wouldn't work, even if it looks sharp.
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I don't recall Craftsman ever selling left hand taps or dies.

Welcome Sheather from Corpus Christi!!! My neighbor to the south!
 
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