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Repairing destroyed vise

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rgray

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#31
The Metalset A4 product is not cheap, $20 for 11oz. I may have to pick up the 11oz size to give this a try next time I visit the store.
$20.00 AND $18.00 plus for shipping to me.... Ordered from a calif. distributer they had 6oz at $8.95 and shipping was better as they are closer to me.
Odd they have 6oz as the smooth-on site didn't show it.
 
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#32
I'm working on making some AXA tool holders. Once I'm done them tomorrow I'll take the vise apart and try the JB weld. I have two packages since the holes are many and significant.
 

David S

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#33
I don't think I have seen it mentioned on this thread, but if it has, then ignore.

JB weld has at least two versions.. One is KWIK which sets up fairly quickly, as in not much open time. Then there is the regular JB weld that says "liquid" for much longer open time and has more ultimate shear strength. I use the longer one when ever I can, even though it may need damming as has been mentioned. Both come in two part tubes.

David
 

Joncooey

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#34
In my opinion, for your consideration, Ni-Rod or Certanium is the best for cast. That stuff is around $30-50 a pound. Aside from that, I'd just preheat it and use a Mig. Migs work pretty good on any good casting. (Gas-shielded) Preheat to 500 degrees (check it with a digital thermometer) weld it up, then wrap it in a welding blanket or bury it in sand to let it cool as slow as possible. Grind it out after or mill it if you have the option. You're only doing cosmetic work so you should have no issues with cracks.
My buddy ran a 2" hole-saw almost through the table on my Chinese drill press. He's an Industrial Electrician and everyone knows that they need supervision; my fault. (Good thing that I didn't let him use the mill). Anyway, I welded it up, cold, with the mig, ground it down, blended it in; no cooling, no issues. And that's on a thin, cheap casting.
Oxy Acetylene Brazing would be my second choice but gas welding procedures introduce a lot of heat into the weldment. A vise should be able to take it but still let her cool as slow as possible.
J.B. - type products; I have less confidence/experience with. I worry about the possibility of oil infiltration causing an eventual bond-failure. Then again it is, largely, only cosmetic and that would be the simplest solution.
Bottom line, regardless of what procedure you choose; get it clean, clean. Acetone or Tolulene, Methyl Hydrate, etc.
 

petertha

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#35
A4 is aluminum filled, just so you know.
http://www.aircraftspruce.ca/menus/cs/epoxy_metalset.html

There are other brands of steel filled epoxies vs. JB but more expensive. Really, for what amounts to a cosmetics, try some JB & see how it goes.
https://www.jbweld.com/collections/metal/products/j-b-weld-professional-size

The biggest challenge you will have is getting a nice surface for the epoxy to adhere to. The Neanderthal over-drill holes & gouges will provide surface texture 'tooth' but its also had a life of oils, cutting fluids & whatever soaking on it. Unless that is properly removed with solvents, I would think epoxy acting essentially as a surface putty might not stay put for long. But hey, if it Purdy's it up & makes you feel better, then its a worthwhile exercise.
 
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#36
It’ll get scrubbed and soaked in acetone. I always have some around, but I bought a big jug just for this purpose.
 

Billh50

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#37
I soaked mine in Kerosene then after it was dried I sprayed it with electrical contact cleaner. The contact cleaner leaves no residue. Filled the holes with JB Weld til the epoxy was higher than the surface. I let it harden for a couple days to make sure it was hard all the way through and not just on the surface. I then machined the epoxy to within .001 - .002 above the original surface. I then removed the rest with files and finally a stone til the bottom was flat and level.
This fix was 4yrs ago and the vice bottom still looks as good as the day I fixed it. I have used all types of oils and water soluable coolants with no problems.
 
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#38
Perfect! Thanks bill.
 

Joe in Oz

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#39
I have a vice similar to yours, but made in Australia. Probably a war-time licensed copy.
It was is very similar condition too. I managed to make it look quite respectable using preheat and nickel arc welding rod. Overfilled the hole and dings and then cooled slowly in ash. I then milled all repaired surfaces, finishing off grinding the flat for the parallels on the surface grinder. There were dings in the bottom - maybe from dropping it - so I stoned all those flat and even scraped the bottom flat to make sure, before surface grinding the top of the slide (for the parallels). Works and looks great now.
 
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#40
Here's a clean look at the vise.
IMG_20171223_010125.jpg


I have a funny feeling this particular hole wasn't stock.... I think I found what crashed the quill power feed...
IMG_20171223_010130.jpg
 
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#41
That hole goes clean right through.
 
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#42
Slathered it on there good...
IMG_20171223_011731.jpg


So, how did you guys mill this off? I assume this is cast iron. I don't have much experience machining cast iron.
I took a pass over it with my face mill yesterday to try to clean up the top and I wasn't impressed. Facemill didn't cut nice, seems hard.

Can I fly cut this? What speed?
Or should I stick with an end mill?
 

Suzuki4evr

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#43
In South Africa we have a product called Pratley Putty which is a two part epoxy putty - you kneed parts A and B together and it softens as you work it, but then cures rock hard and can be filed or machined. I have used it on my mill table to fill the worst scares, and it avoids the problems with liquid type epoxy running out of where you actually want them to be.

It's a bit of a South African legend it was used by NASA in 1960's on Ranger landing craft, so has the distinction of being the only South Africa product ever to go to the moon.
Hallo Mozampete,I didn't know you were from sunny SA,so am I.Yes I also used pratly steel a couple of times aspecially when I was still in the automotive trade working for a boss. We used to repair big V8 engine blocks that has had holes knocked out by the connecting rods. We used to drill a number of holes all around the hole,weaved wiring all across the hole to give the pratly something to apply on,and I have got to tell you,I think those are still runnig leak free. Good stuff and easy to work with.
 

MozamPete

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#44
Hallo Mozampete,I didn't know you were from sunny SA,so am I
My adopted home. I'm actually a Kiwi but I have lived in Mozambique and South Africa for the past 15 years - I only originally came over for a 16 month contract job but stayed.
 

Tozguy

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#45
Shawn, do you want to cut into the original cast iron surface or just bring the epoxy down level with it?
 

Billh50

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#46
Shawn, I didn't mill any of the cast iron. I just milled the JB Weld down to within .001 - .002 of the cast surface with an endmill. Then filed the rest down til I hit the cast iron. I then stoned the surface to clean everything and make it flat again.
The epoxy should mill will no problem using HSS.
 
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#47
Im not sure yet how I want to treat the epoxyed surface, but the to of the vise id like to face off and make pretty. Taking that surface down doesn't effect anything
 

MarkM

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#48
Remove the vise jaws. Screw in a plate the size of the bottom using counter sunk screws deep enough so you can Mill the plate flat and square. Subtract the plate thickness from your vise jaws at the bottom and remove material for clearance of the plate. You may lose some depth but at least it will be usable again for accurate machining with Parallels. You ll have to mill the bottom of the vise for clearance of the plate to enable opening and closing. It may be doable. May not. Depends on your vice and amount of material to work with.
 
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woodchucker

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#49
Shawn, be careful what you want. Pretty is not necessarily a great thing. Flat and level is more useful.
Make sure your moveable jaw can be tightened up against a thinner jaw bed. Also realize that you maybe changing the screw height. So then you will have to shim the jaw to keep the height. Your shims will need to be kept so they don't move... Kind of pandora's box. Just thinking ahead if you haven't.
 

Billh50

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#50
Also remember that if you take anything off the surface. You may have problems with the movable jaw being loose or the screw wanting to bind up. Because you change how everything sits.
 
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#51
I'm not talking about the dove tail, but the actual top surface or the movable jaw. Just the top surface.

Basically, I'm asking how to machine cast iron. Hss? Carbide?
 
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#52
I worked with epoxy composites for six years with a good deal of time spent studying cure rates.

When an epoxy has hardened to the touch, it has only cured about 10%. A full cure can take years for epoxies that take a day to harden. Epoxies also continue to shrink with curing. Heat will hasten the cure with the cure rate doubling for every 10ºC increase in temperature. A higher temperature will also result in a harder and more heat resistant product. Epoxy also has a property called the glass transition point which is the temperature at which the cured epoxy changes from a rigid to a plastic solid. This temperature increases as the cure becomes more complete

If I were repairing the vise with an epoxy composite, I would fill the recesses generously and allow to cure at room temperature until hard. Then I would slowly increase the temperature until it reached between 110ºC and 130ºC. This process would take place over several days and the epoxy should be close to fully cured.

As to the composite, I would use a slow curing epoxy and mix in iron powder to make a thick paste. Not having the powder, saw dust from cutting iron with my horizontal band saw or filings from filing with a fine tooth file would work.

Fully cured epoxy is fairly immune to most solvents. I would expect good resistance to the chemicals that would be used in machining.
I'm gonna try the heat cure you speak of here. I have a crappy electric skillet we don't use,
15140412522535015792531502829991.jpg
This skillet is junk, so the wife won't care. But this set up will heat the epoxy up slowly. I only have it set to about 120 deg c. And I have the garage heat on to 18 since it's -6 right now. The heat should transfer through the metal block into the vise slowly. I'll leave this set up for a few days? Really shouldn't cause any problems.
What do you think?
 

Dave Paine

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#53
I purchased a second hand mill back in the end of January. It had a 4in vise which had some small dings, no major drill marks. Biggest issue was the thrust bearing had fallen apart. I ordered a new 4in vise but decided to try and improve the old vise just to see if I could.

Before machining the rails I checked the bottom of the vise by running over a piece of 600 grit wet dry paper on this granite plate. As expected, it was not making consistent contact. I continued running this over the wet dry paper until I was happy with the bottom.

I appreciate this is not the ideal method, but I do not have surface grinder or access to one, so using what I have available.

Vise_bottom_sanded_flatter_7539.jpg

I then mounted back on the table and milled the rails to get them flat and remove some small dings. I do not recall how much I removed, perhaps 30 thou. I used HSS endmill because it was all I had at the time. Multiple passes on each rail so you can see the overlap lines.

I forgot to take "before" pictures.

Vise_rails_after_machining_7538.jpg
 

RJSakowski

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#54
I'm gonna try the heat cure you speak of here. I have a crappy electric skillet we don't use,
View attachment 250693
This skillet is junk, so the wife won't care. But this set up will heat the epoxy up slowly. I only have it set to about 120 deg c. And I have the garage heat on to 18 since it's -6 right now. The heat should transfer through the metal block into the vise slowly. I'll leave this set up for a few days? Really shouldn't cause any problems.
What do you think?
That should work. Have you got a means of monitoring the temperature? I have a thermocouple for my digital multimeter but I would think something like a candy thermometer would work.
 
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#55
I have zero means to monitor the temp. I used to have a laser thermometer but it sucked and I took it apart for its 9v battery clip. Lol.
 

Ulma Doctor

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#56
if you were so inclined,
you could make a scraper from an old file and scrape the surfaces to the accuracy you desire
 
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#57
Scraping is something I wouldn't mind learning. My lathe is in pretty dire need of scraping.
But it looks pretty tedious, and the good Lord knows how much I detest anything tedious.
 

ezduzit

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#58
I would have over-filled all the holes and then clamped a piece of flat stock to it, using waxed paper as a release agent, hoping for a surface which needed very little secondary work.
 
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#59
So I’m gonna start machining this vise tomorrow. The epoxy has been on the heat for a few days now and it’s harder than a coffin nail. So I think it’s ready.
I’m gonna machine new jaws, but what should I make them from? I don’t want super soft. But I cannot harden and grind.
 

Bob Korves

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#60
So I’m gonna start machining this vise tomorrow. The epoxy has been on the heat for a few days now and it’s harder than a coffin nail. So I think it’s ready.
I’m gonna machine new jaws, but what should I make them from? I don’t want super soft. But I cannot harden and grind.
I like mild steel jaws on my mill vise. Seem to grip tighter, are much easier on tooling if you accidentally run in to them them (me, never! so far...), and they can be machined flat and smooth again easily, even in place.
 
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