Repulsion-Induction motor

6

63redtudor

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I have re-assembled my grandfather's old South Bend lathe and now I am trying to wire up the motor. After a bit of reasurch, my dad and I figured out that it is an old Repulsion start - Induction run motor that can run on 110 or 220, single phase. Unfortunately, the wires were hacked off with only about 2" or so outside the case, though 2 of the wires are connected together (of the 4). I belive that the motor was set up to run on 220 (I don't remember, but my uncle does), so I want to stick with that. Right now I simply want to wire up the motor and see if it will run. There are a couple of motor shops here in the area and pretty much the response has been to the tune of: "that motor is to old - none of us know anything about it," "it has sleave bearings that have to be oiled," "we can get you a great price on a new motor...." In their defence, I only showed pictures as the motor is simply to heavy to lug around easily. While I'm not set on the fact that I HAVE to use this motor, I just simply want to see if it will run, and considering the fact that all, but one, of my motors has sleave bearings/needs to be oiled, that isn't a problem for me.
So, the motor turns over freely by hand. I did pull off the 'back end' (non-output shaft end) to vaccuum out a little bit of gunk and to look at the wires and brushes (they look fine actually). I also checked the wires going through the case and did ohm out the wires to make sure I don't have any obvious shorts.

My question is how would I wire up the motor to test it? The 220v outlet I have avalible is the 4-prong style used for a dryer. I have 4 wires - red, green, white and black. I know that green is ground (I know this is temporary, but I still want to have the motor grounded!), white is neutral, but what do I do with the red and black. How do I get from the 3 wires (red, black and white) to the 2 on the motor? The motor leads have no differeing colors that I was able to see (I did check).

I also have a simple toggle switch (from ACE) that is intended for machinery motors rated at 100-240v and up to 30 amps. I don't intend to keep this switch for the motor, I simply want something a little easier/faster/safer (?) than yanking the plug out if I have smoke.

I suppose a few pictures are in order.
Front
Lathe_Motor_Front.jpg

Back
Lathe_Motor_Back.jpg

Side. Two wires are connected together, this shorts out the 110v coils and allows the 220v coils to operate. These pictures were before I cleaned a little and pulled the back of the motor off. The wires now actually have some insulation.
Lathe_Motor_Side.jpg

The tag.
Lathe_Motor_Tag.jpg

Thanks for any help!
 
Start by labeling what you have hanging out. Then try to get a resistance measurement on each combination of wires. We are looking to identify the start and run circuits of the motor.
 
The two wires connected together should be just taped up, the other two connect to the 220 V current, for 110 V, the two taped together would instead be connected one of each to the two single wires that are there now; which to connect? I don't think there is any way of knowing beyond trial and error, just don't leave it connected for long, just give it a bump, if it starts, OK, if it just grunts, exchange the two wires that were previously connected together.
 
Have a couple of repulsive/inductive motors. Don't believe there is a start winding to worry about. To reverse them the brush assembly is rotated slightly.
They were pretty neat motors, low starting current and high starting torque compared to capacitor start motors.

Greg
 
For your wall power, the red and black are for 220, the white wire with either the red or the black will be 110V. The 4 wire plugs are for things that use both 110 and 220 in the same machine. For your 220 machine forget that the white wire is even there.
 
63redtudor is my son and I have seen the motor. The motor is set up to run on 220. The problem is that he has a four plug dryer plugin. We know that the two straight plugs are the hot 220 and each will be connect to the single wires. The upside down L is the neutral. Is this the one that goes to the twisted pair coming out the motor? The upside down U is the ground. Should there be a wire (green) be connected to the motor case, too? We just want to be sure.
 
NOOOOOooooooo.........
The pin with the white wire is not connected to anything for this motor. The pin with the green wire is connected to the motor frame. On your dryer the white is only there for the 110V light bulbs.
 
Flyinfool said:
NOOOOOooooooo.........
The pin with the white wire is not connected to anything for this motor. The pin with the green wire is connected to the motor frame. On your dryer the white is only there for the 110V light bulbs.
Click to expand...
Thank you, this is what we are trying to find out.
 
Some of these old motors may be electrically leaky and a possible shock hazard; possibly why motor shops shy away from them.
You only need to connect the 220 volt lines and a ground. Neutral not needed.
Be safe
M
 
Wow! Thanks everyone for the responses, this is very helpful!
Not to insult anyone's intelligence, but I guess I'd better explain what I have a little better. My dad and I did a bit of reading (not all of it on the internet...), to figure out what this motor is and how they are configured. What threw my dad and I off was the fact that the motor is AC, but had a communicator and brush assembly like a DC motor. Apparently the communicators stay engaged till the motor gets up to speed, then disengage (I guess there is such a thing as a true Repulsion-Induction motor and the communicators stay engaged the entire time, but they are rare). The motors are reversible, but you have to physically move the communicator assembly (many of the motors had a little lever) before the motor was started. Most (all?) of these motors were dual rated for 110v or 220v, basically there were 2 parallel sets of coils. The coil (voltage) that wasn't used was shorted out, hence 2 wires connected together. As a result, all of these motors I've read about have 4 wires (I'm sure there's an exception), 2 for 110v and 2 for 220v. I realize that this is a VERY simple explanation (I'm sure there's an expert who is twitching), but this was the best way for me to understand it.
The 2 wires that are connected (I'm pretty confident they are the 110v wires) have a permanent butt-splice connecting them together.
If I am understanding the advice here correctly, I ignore the white wire and it doesn't matter (black or red) which wire goes to which connection on the motor as the direction is dictated by where the brushes are on the communicator. Eventually I would like to add a light to the lathe, then I will use the white wire (correct?). But that will be a question for another time.
Originally my intention was to make sure the motor works and then get a reversing drum switch like I used on my Sheldon. However, (as long as the motor works anyway) I think that I will use a push-button style switch for running the motor. The toggle switch I have right now is just to simply test the motor (markba633csi, your caution is well noted). So, if the motor does not work and I end up getting a different one, the white wire will probably not be used as long as I stick with 220v. (Right?)
I know that this has been a little long-winded, but I want to make sure I get this right without destroying the motor or zapping myself. Thank you everyone who has posted, this has been VERY helpful!
 
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