Restoration of my Schaublin SV52 toolroom milling machine

jshaugjord

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Hi all,
greetings to my "classmates" from the Georgia scraping class and our mentor R.King.

I have been trying to hone my scraping skills, as best I have had the time to (my friends camelback.. happens to be just the thing we practised, ie. one surface flat and to 40 ppi). I learned a lot in Georgia, something I would never have done without Richards teaching. I hope I will do him right with my efforts on my projects.. Another side of the class experience was that I had a he.. of a good time! Better vacation I could not have had.
One major project I have aquired is a Schaublin SV52 mill, details found at http://www.lathes.co.uk/schaublinmiller/page5.html (thanks to my friend Ola, who convinced me that I just had to have this mill, as can be seen by his grinning face after I had been talking with the salesguy at the local Danish machine dealer..)View attachment 54691

I did try the machine somewhat before committing, but as Ola proclaimed "it cannot be much used as there is hardly no paint chipped off.." hmm..the machine is a good 50 years old..
View attachment 54692pic of the mill in my garage, having been delivered by the typical Danish freight company driver working in slippers, truck with summer tires (down to my place went well, but in Oslo in the hillside in wintery conditions to where he went..?)
Well, to put it short, I have found both wear and breakage (as would be expected).
Listing as goes:
- The casting holding the brass nut for the in/out table feed was almost broken off, and parted entirely when I put it to the test. One part is still stuck to the underside of the bigger part that onto which the table rests/slides. I have not yet been able to solve the puzzle of how to get apart, but I hope I am in for a "AHA!" experience. Anyway, the 2 cast iron parts are candidates for either brazing or welding together.. We'll see. That is a fix that may be held off until later. Update! I am told it is also possible to "nest the parts together" using Metalock. Ie. no heating, welding or traditional stuff.. sounds too good to be true.. will investigate further as there is a local Metalock company in my city.
- a couple of broken nuts/screw remaindings in holes etc. Not the biggest problems
- Some more or less rusty parts. Also not much concern
- a lot of grime and dirt, as well as a good portion of greas/oil/swarf mixture.. again, no problem, just work..
- Then onto the topic that is more interesting, namely how much work is needed to restore it to its' former accuracy..
The old lady is Swiss, and on the heavy side at 1200Kg (2600lbs), so she's hard to wrestle around. I have plans to get her on her back having undressed her down to the bare neccessities.. that is, scraping the column ways etc. She may have a coat of fresh paint, but I am no artist, so if it can be avoided..
The table sideways measurements shows about +/-5/100 (2/1000") deviation from center. To my knowledge, the table itself is bowed, and "hangs" down on each side by this amount. This is confirmed by setting a level on the table which proves it is high in the middle. Pic show one of the table flatness tests (I did front, middle and back as well as crosswise all corners, all the same results). Right, Richard?
View attachment 54693
The underside of table, ie. table ways, are pretty flat, though the scrapemarks are almost gone. I also measured the box ways after I had removed the table, leaving the knee ways exposed. In/out travel seems OK, ie. almost no difference. The horisontal ways seems to have seen less wear, and these seem flat and parallel. The main errors are in the vertical box ways. The knee slopes towards the left and out. Going down there is about 20/100 mm (8/1000") movement to the left from top to bottom (45 cm) and about 25/100 mm (10/1000") out.View attachment 54697
The column has box ways, with the gib on the right (inside) of the left way as seen from the front. With this gib drawn in tight, there is still room for a 10/1000" feeler gage on the opposite side of the left way (same ways as the gib). This is probably because the left side of the righthand way also bears, so no matter if the gib is tight, there is still play. The top side of both keep-plates behind the ways also have play, indicating signs of wear of the mating members here, ie. the back of the ways?
The left side box way is higher than the right side, so it won't "sit" directly on the granite table. Therefore it seems easier for me to scrape the horisontal box ways while the knee is fixed to the column.
View attachment 54698
Is this OK practise? Out of lazyness, since the knee is already sitting there, I thought maybe I could scrape the horisontal ways first. OK? I guess this would void the term "building the house from the foundation and up"? Ie. normally you start at the bottom and work up: First remove the knee and scrape the column, then the mating member, then mount back the knee.
Also, from your experience, which of the box way surfaces are clearance, if any? Left vertical way bears both sides, but is the right way meant to have clearance on one side?
Many questions, and I know you're progressed to another scraping class, but I thought you might like to hear from me... Kind rgds, Jan Sverre
 
Jan, I'm sure it looks daunting and you'll want to get down to the critical work as soon as possible but here are a couple of suggestions: 1. Take lots of pictures of the assembled machine-it will help you remember where little things go. 2. Using a shop vac, kerosine or mineral spirits and different kinds of wire brushes (brass is good) and scotchbrite pads, clean as much of the metal shavings off the machine as possible. The shavings will be everywhere and since they are anchored by dried grease and oil they are difficult to remove. 3. Then make an assessment of how deeply you want to go into the machine. good luck
 
Well, I'd just like to commend you for taking the time, not to mention the expense, to attend one of Rich's scraping classes in the US. I'm in awe!. I can only imagine what an adventure that must have been for you.

That looks like it will be a very nice mill once you thrust your newly acquired knowledge on it. Best of luck and please keep us up to date with lots of pics.
 
Jan, I'm sure it looks daunting and you'll want to get down to the critical work as soon as possible but here are a couple of suggestions: 1. Take lots of pictures of the assembled machine-it will help you remember where little things go. 2. Using a shop vac, kerosine or mineral spirits and different kinds of wire brushes (brass is good) and scotchbrite pads, clean as much of the metal shavings off the machine as possible. The shavings will be everywhere and since they are anchored by dried grease and oil they are difficult to remove. 3. Then make an assessment of how deeply you want to go into the machine. good luck

Hi again Jim,

Yes, I know I have a load of work ahead, but that’s OK. Have taken a lot of pictures and some videos. I agree that this is important as the restoration process will take time, and even those obvious things you thought were easy tasks, not easy to forget, seems to proove a challenge when assembly comes around some months later. Since the pic of the knee with cover and a lot of swarf/oil mixture was taken, it is since been cleaned partially, and I am about to start using brushes and kerosene as you mention. I am not sure if I really have to remove the round column that holds the head (allowing movement in both planes, ie. universal), before I tip the beast onto the back to scrape the column ways. I kinda want Richards opinion also as the ways need to be square to this column, hmm…
Next is to pull the knee and start scraping.. (I am in process of tooling up a bit for this, bigger surface plate (1200x800mm, class 00 (4mikro) etc.) Anyway, I’m booked (or may I say hooked?) for the next days with total refurb of our bedroom, so the mill will have to wait a little..

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Well, I'd just like to commend you for taking the time, not to mention the expense, to attend one of Rich's scraping classes in the US. I'm in awe!. I can only imagine what an adventure that must have been for you.

That looks like it will be a very nice mill once you thrust your newly acquired knowledge on it. Best of luck and please keep us up to date with lots of pics.

Hi Steve, very nice to hear from you guys. Thanks for the comments. Yes, it was an adventure, but I was overdue on some quality time like this. Wouldn't have done this however if I wasn't able to combine this with my work schedule. I enjoyed every minute the stay, and would love to do the same again. Sure, will keep you updated. Kind rgds Jan
 
Jan, I Have been busy teaching another class and to tired to comment. I't sounds like the dealer took advantage of you. You will find some machinery dealers are not honest. Many say they are as honest as a used car salesman. But at least most buyers take the car for a test drive. It sounds like you never saw the machine or test drove it before buying it It's a good lesson for everyone buying a machine. I recommend if you can't fly or drive to go test the machine call and hire a local machinery rebuilder to go examine it and pay him to give you his honest opinion of the condition of the machine. One of the readers from Missouri bought a Bridgeport from a dealer and it was 3 machines made into one and it had paper shims under the gibs. He has a mess now. He and you would have been money ahead to have paid an expert to examine the machine before you paid out hard earned money for junk. If the dealer told you the machine was a "Project machine" then you can pay less, but if he sold you as a machine "in running condition" He is a crook. This is why the honest Machine Tool Dealers give you a 30 day money back guarantee. I can't say it enough that if you can go test the machine do it. Or hire someone to test it for you.

Jan I hope you have a copy of "Machine Tool Reconditioning" as Chapter 27 was written by Kearney Trecker and Cincinnati new machine builders on how to build or rebuild a horizontal mill. Look at pictures 27.7 and 27.8 as it shows you how to test the spindle to the column. I also do a slightly different method as I attach a ground test bar to the top of the spindle spindle and spin the test bar so it is parallel to the spindle bearings. I will scan a rough drawing later and add it to this post. The rule you have to follow here is the horizontal spindle is fixed and not adjustable and you have to test and scrape everything to it. Unlike a Vertical Mill like a Bridgeport or Jim's machine, the spindle is attached to a removable headstock and it can be adjusted or scraped to be aligned to the top of the table. After you scrape column parallel to the spindle then you scrape the knee, saddle and table on both types of vertical and horizontal machines. You have to assume that 99% of all machines were built accurately from the factory, so it isn't the same as they had to do when building the machine new.
I have to go, but will write more later. Rich PS> Many parts of the Connelley book is a waste of time or I do not agree with the techniques, but it is a good text book for you to follow.
 
Jan, I Have been busy teaching another class and to tired to comment. I't sounds like the dealer took advantage of you. You will find some machinery dealers are not honest. Many say they are as honest as a used car salesman. But at least most buyers take the car for a test drive. It sounds like you never saw the machine or test drove it before buying it It's a good lesson for everyone buying a machine. I recommend if you can't fly or drive to go test the machine call and hire a local machinery rebuilder to go examine it and pay him to give you his honest opinion of the condition of the machine. One of the readers from Missouri bought a Bridgeport from a dealer and it was 3 machines made into one and it had paper shims under the gibs. He has a mess now. He and you would have been money ahead to have paid an expert to examine the machine before you paid out hard earned money for junk. If the dealer told you the machine was a "Project machine" then you can pay less, but if he sold you as a machine "in running condition" He is a crook. This is why the honest Machine Tool Dealers give you a 30 day money back guarantee. I can't say it enough that if you can go test the machine do it. Or hire someone to test it for you.

Jan I hope you have a copy of "Machine Tool Reconditioning" as Chapter 27 was written by Kearney Trecker and Cincinnati new machine builders on how to build or rebuild a horizontal mill. Look at pictures 27.7 and 27.8 as it shows you how to test the spindle to the column. I also do a slightly different method as I attach a ground test bar to the top of the spindle spindle and spin the test bar so it is parallel to the spindle bearings. I will scan a rough drawing later and add it to this post. The rule you have to follow here is the horizontal spindle is fixed and not adjustable and you have to test and scrape everything to it. Unlike a Vertical Mill like a Bridgeport or Jim's machine, the spindle is attached to a removable headstock and it can be adjusted or scraped to be aligned to the top of the table. After you scrape column parallel to the spindle then you scrape the knee, saddle and table on both types of vertical and horizontal machines. You have to assume that 99% of all machines were built accurately from the factory, so it isn't the same as they had to do when building the machine new.
I have to go, but will write more later. Rich PS> Many parts of the Connelley book is a waste of time or I do not agree with the techniques, but it is a good text book for you to follow.

Hello there Richard, I hope you are doing well, even a bit tired. You sure are busy teaching.. I know I have a project on my hands here, and apart from the broken casting, I guess I knew what was coming. Price was OK. We'll see how it progresses. I will follow what you say, and start scraping the column. Take care, Jan
 
Hello there Richard, I hope you are doing well, even a bit tired. You sure are busy teaching.. I know I have a project on my hands here, and apart from the broken casting, I guess I knew what was coming. Price was OK. We'll see how it progresses. I will follow what you say, and start scraping the column. Take care, Jan


Be a detective and check it all out first before scraping. I suggest you use as big a surface plate you can find to set on the columm and a straight-edge. Plus using the spindle to get your alignment to .0002" / 12". Rich
 
Be a detective and check it all out first before scraping. I suggest you use as big a surface plate you can find to set on the columm and a straight-edge. Plus using the spindle to get your alignment to .0002" / 12". Rich
Will try my best. I have just bought my friends 1,2 x 0,8 m plate, which I will use as we did in class. Then I have a portable long granite surface (was part of a CMM), 100cm long that I can use on the column, as well as a 1,5m Brown & Sharpe camelback, though the latter really wears you down muscling it back and forth. The ways are 85cm, so this should work. Yes, I will measure, and measure again before I attempt the scraping. PS! I have an old BIAX, "blue" version, but this single speed type, is running too fast for my skill level at 100%. However, connecting it through a variAC (ie. "external" Rheostat), I can use it better down at 50-60% speed. Also, as you mentioned, the shorter, stiffer holders are not so good (at least not for beginners) as the more flexible, longer we used in class. I will order this type, but for now I use the Anderson blade (with the soldered on tip) in the holder I got. The shank of the Anderson blades are about 2 inches long, and as a mounting, it becomes more flexible. Seems to work (as an intermediate solution anyhow). Another thing is that the stroke length is limited, so the machine isn't that good for roughing. Do you know if there were different types of this early scraper, Richard? I know of one with the switch at the top (near where you have the thumb), while mine has the ON/OFF switch underneath (180 degrees from the other). The stroke length is also reportedly longer (20mm), while one mine it is a only 7-8mm (hmm.. the scale is 20mm.. something must be wrong..).
 
Im sorry if i fooled you into buying a boat anchor Jan :whiteflag: I will do my best to hjelp you out of this mess :))
If you want you can borrow my biax when you pick up the surface plate. Looking forward to see this mill back to its former glory! Just let med know if i can hjelp out with something!
 
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