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Rhodes Shaper Rebuild

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N

Nelson

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#31
Fabulous restoration so far, please keep us updated!
 

Kevinb71

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#32
Thanks for posting all this. There is a lot of information to absorb here for future projects.
 

tertiaryjim

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#33
Nels, Kevin
Thank you!
With all the scraping to be done it's going to be slow but I'll add updates and try to include information that might help others doing similar work.
 

oldmasheentuls

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#34
Wow, This is a great thread... I recently acquired a slotting head for my early Rhodes Shaper, this thread will definitely help with getting the head tuned up... Thanks for such a detailed report.

Ray
 

tertiaryjim

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#35
An Apology
Sorry to have let this project go for so long.
Was trying a new medication which the Dr. insisted I stay on for a long duration to " Give it a chance ".
Med didn't work for me and I've been physically unable to continue working on the shaper.
Hope to be back at it in the next few weeks and will report on my progress.

Was working on the 60deg straight edge and have completed the rough-in scraping.
Need the 60deg straight edge to true up my little mill drill and the cross-slide on the lathe.
Will next have to do the fine scraping to give it smooth flat faces.
Am hoping it can be used to true up the the 50deg dovetail on the shaper but clearance is tight.
Really don't want to have to machine and scrape a 50deg straightedge or pay the cost of materials.

Also had completed the rough-in scraping of several faces of the shaper.
Will later work to get about 50% to 60% contact on those surfaces.
The factory scraped both sides of the mating-sliding faces to hold oil and the best information I've found says that 50% to 60% contact would work best.
All my checks show that the cast components warped after the factory scraped them in or, they didn't do a good job in the first place.

Spent some time studying how the sliding surfaces interacted and were gibed.
Seems to me that they did some things the hard way.
Also tried some variations of scrapers, all home made, to find the best designs for scraping various surfaces.
Much more work and testing needs to be done on that so it will be awhile before I post it.
Will post pictures and explanations when I can get back on the project.
 
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Nelson

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#36
Good to see you back.
 

Kevinb71

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#37
Good to hear things are looking up for you. Please post some pics of the scraping of the dovetails if you get a chance. That has always seemed like it would be the hard part of a project like yours. Maybe not!
 

tertiaryjim

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#38
Its good to be back but don't know what the Dr. will want to try next.
Hope it doesn't knock me on my arse.

The longest 50deg dovetail needs a strait edge about 17" long.
I hope to do it with the back side of the 60deg straight edge, due to clearance problems, and maintain the flat and angle of the current face.
Then just scape the shorter mating surface to match. Got to keep it all square to the travel as well.

Will probably have to make a 50deg dovetail about 12" long to complete the project.
The little mill-drill I have has crappy, loose dovetails and gibb's which is why I started the 26" long 60deg straight edge.
Tightened the Mill-drill gibbs as much as possible and was careful while machining the straight edge but had to scape a lot of cast iron to get it close.
The mill-drill is loose and the dovetails n gib angles don't match. Proudly made in China.
I really need to correct the mill-drill to make machining a 50deg dovetail easy and will have to make or modify clamps to hold the cast iron for machining.

So, to make a 50deg dovetail I really need to finish my long 60deg straight edge and use it to scrape the mill in and then finish the new gibbs, build clamps to hold the cast iron at 50deg for machining, then
just scape everything I can reach or find and that will put me back on track.
Was bummed to find they had used 50deg on the shaper. Oh-Well It's a learning experience. Far better than sitting on my back-side.
 

Karl_T

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#39
Super late to this thread...

I have a Rhodes slotter. Looks like yours but vertical. Maybe just a few extra parts???

Do you happen to know?

Karl
 

tertiaryjim

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#40
Karl
Sorry to take so long to reply.
I don't have any information on the vertical slotter and wander if you have a regular shaper with the vertical slotting attachment installed.
A picture would be great!
I did find a lot of information on the 8" shaper with the vertical attachment ....

Metal shaper column 46
Kay fishers metal shaper columns
Metal shaper literature

There might be another but gotta find it.
A lot can be found with a search.
 

Andre

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#41
Your resto looks real good. One thing I did notice though, I think your using way to much blue when scraping. When applying blue you should still be able to see your surface plate clearly, and the layer should be theoretically 20 millionths thick. More blue makes the work go faster but you really want to get that blue thin for final finishing.
 

Karl_T

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#42
Karl
Sorry to take so long to reply.
I don't have any information on the vertical slotter and wander if you have a regular shaper with the vertical slotting attachment installed.
A picture would be great!
I did find a lot of information on the 8" shaper with the vertical attachment ....

Metal shaper column 46
Kay fishers metal shaper columns
Metal shaper literature

There might be another but gotta find it.
A lot can be found with a search.
I'll bet its just an attachment. I'll get a pic.
 

tertiaryjim

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#43
Andre
Some of these surfaces are so far out that a very heavy coat of blue only shows in two or three small spots.
As I get closer to flat, the blue has to be thinned till the plate is clearly seen through it but each check uses blue and helps to thin the film of blue on the plate.
I start the bad surfaces and work multiple parts till they are closer to flat which thins the blue each check.
If the blue and plate are still clean I will continue to use it, thinning as needed.
Getting a fresh coat of blue thin enough for final finish work is difficult.
I've found that a few drops of light weight oil can help to thin and spread it and a roller is great, but when right for those final checks it's so thin that a paper towel rubbed
across it will hardly show any blue yet the scrapped surfaces will still pick it up.
It's a learning process for me and the information and suggestions that others have posted have been a great help.
Thanks for looking and your suggestion.
 

tertiaryjim

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#44
Been trying to do a bit of scraping of late but the joints just aren't up to it. Perhaps soon!

Did find a machine on craigs list that I couldn't pass up.
Had already pulled the Sabina electronic drive speed before remembering to take a pic.
The clamp handle fell off on the last part of my trip but landed in the truck bed.
IMG_9592 - P.jpg IMG_9595 - P.jpg
It's a May Tool CO. 42v 3/4 circle cutter from the late 70s or perhaps 80s.
Will cut 16 gauge mild steel circles up to 48" and has a 3/4 HP motor.
It's been stored outside and unused/unloved for some time.
The motor and speed drive work.
The seller plugged it in to show me but with all the dust n grit that had to be in it I didn't want it run much.
Will have to sharpen or replace the cutter and clean it up before I know what bearings need replacement.
There's the standard rust problems to deal with.
May also have to add some minor upgrades.
The legs aren't factory and though the machine base was drilled for bolting them on the person who added them welded em in place.

The Sabina adjustable speed drive has a schematic for 1/4 to 1 1/2 HP drives if anyone would like it posted.
I've not checked the motor tag but it looks like it's a DC motor.
Can't even work on my current long list of projects so of course I needed another.....

IMG_9592 - P.jpg IMG_9595 - P.jpg
 

tertiaryjim

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#45
Been watching Craigs list for goodies.
This came up and was just a bit over 110 miles away. Most anything is that far from where I live so I jumped on it.
IMG_9639 - P.jpg
Looks as though it might be in the original color, Light Blue-Grey.
It fit in the 6 foot truck bed with just a few inches to spare and that was with the spindal lowered.
The four step sheave on the right mounts to the base. Belt is three inches wide.
Was intrigued that it has power feed. This feature has been disconnected and no belt is with it but all parts are still mounted and it should be easy to get it working.
The spindal is raised/lowered with a small hand wheel which is geared fairly low. Nice for infeed but slow when setting up.
The table is raised/lowered with the screw running down the side of the casting. It's missing the handle.
IMG_9640 - P.jpg
Didn't think to turn the table over for this pic but its in fair condition.
IMG_9642 - P.jpg
Will have to go through the spindal and replace some or perhaps all the bushings. Still, its fairly tight with little movement on any of the shafts. It could be cleaned up and used without any major work and still out-preform most China machines.
IMG_9643 - P.jpg
PAT'D OCT 16 1900
IMG_9644 - P.jpg
B. F. BARNES CO
Haven't gotten this beast unloaded yet and will have to research it's its history.
I suspect the fork , beside my boot, was to operate a clutch so the machine could sit idle while the overhead belt line was turning.
Most of those components have been removed and it was converted to motor drive.
IMG_9641 - P.jpg
This ONE HP motor is several times the size of a modern motor. It has bronze bushings and felt wicks.
It drives the 3" wide belt and mounts side by side with the sheave set on the base of the stand.

This is project number 5 on my list so it might be a couple of years before I start the rebuild.
Was really happy to find such a nice piece of Americana iron.
 

Karl_T

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#46
I love the old Camel Back drill presses. My father has one.
 

tertiaryjim

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#47
I love the old Camel Back drill presses. My father has one.
I'm real happy to have this one. Been looking for more than a year and all I've seen were at least 350 miles away and very expensive.

Pulled the top drive shaft and found babbitt was sweated in for bearings. I had expected bronze bushings.
Lots of play in the bearing under the belt load. Will have to check that the shaft is square to the spindle or if there's enough adjustment that I can scrape it in. Also need to scrape the bearing surface to get out the high silica sand inbeded into it.
The babbitt layer seems pretty thick.
Have handled a lot of babbitt bearings. Mostly on turbines and pumps.
But, have never sweated it into a bearing and these strong backs are cast with the frame.
There were thick gaskets under the caps and they have the largest oil holes ever seen. Perhaps oil drip tubes were once installed there.
 
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