Rockford/Hedwick MV100 power table feed install

Brucepts

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More than a few years ago I purchased my Rockford MV100 mill it came with the factory table feed but it was non-working, my intent was to someday get it working but the more I thought about what was required (it lacked the engage lever and had something homemade) I started looking at a Bridgeport style power feed but wasn't sure how it would work and what was needed to make it work on my mill. The end plate that comes with the standard unit was designed to work with the 4 hole Bridgeport table and mine was 3 holes. The 4 hole pattern would not work as there was no room to drill it on my table, so my only option was to use the stock parts.

The leadscrew would need extended and a keyway cut. Since I could not extend the leadscrew and cut a keyway if the leadscrew was removed from the mill so I made a new stub to extend my leadscrew doing this I could mill a new keyway using the mill. Once this was done I could then take the leadscrew out and do the lathe work to prep it for the stub extension that would be welded on.
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Modified my leadscrew with a socket so my extension could be light pressed on. I also filled in the existing keyway that was badly damaged.

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I pressed my stub onto the leadscrew and TIG welded it checking as I went to make sure it was staying straight. I'm not an accomplished Tig welder but muddled my way through the process, it wasn't "going to the moon" so it did not have to be perfect just straight and functional.

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After welding it was put back in the lathe to cleanup the shaft.

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I needed to then attach the powerfeed gearbox to my end plate so I simply transferred the hole location onto my endplate there is clearance on the gearbox holes for alignment. I needed to use a Bridgeport dial and had to purchase one that matched my leadscrew rotation (0-100). Extra clearance is needed if you want to use the dial since my mill uses a round handle and it limits your "reach" into the dial. I spaced/shimmed everything up and then cutoff my stub extension. Fit my handwheel and added a screw to give positive load for the gears/spacing/shims.

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I still have to install the handle on the wheel and make a proper washer for the handwheel attachment but, I have been quite pleased with this setup!

I have a DRO setup on this mill so the dial has not been an issue.

Sorry my video is sideways but you get the idea . . .
 

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keflaman

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I also have an MV100. The table feed works okay in a wonkie kind of way, but I have been considering a retrofit like yours.
 

Asm109

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Nice job Bruce. I think you sent me a drive belt, springs and a ball bearing to get my quill feed operational. That was many, many years ago.
Well I finally got around to installing the parts last year and the quill feed works perfectly. I also made a wheel to drive the rpm meter on the front. That is functional, but I am not sure it is accurate. What was dead on your factory table feed?
Oh, and welcome to the forum,
Erich

ps I uploaded whatever Hedwick documentation I had onto this website. Just search the downloads area under my user name.
 

Brucepts

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Thanks! It's funny how people drift into and out of our lives I do recall sending out some parts way back when, glad I found out they got used to help someone out!

My factory power table feed was missing the front gear box cover and it had what looked like a homemade engage setup, I found little info or pictures of what it should look like and work like to get it working that I just gave up. The powerfeed is out in my shed if anyone needs any parts.

A buddy and I talked about adding a Bridgeport table feed so I took the plunge and picked one up from Enco with a 20 or 25% discount before they went back to MSC. Once I got into the mod it was just figuring it out as I went along and getting up the nerve to cut things up and make it work.

My mill where the speed dial is located was broken from the top being dropped at some point before I got it so my speed dial is not working and never will. I picked up a digital speed meter last year that I haven't gotten setup yet to read off the top drive gear using an inductive sensor.

To many projects not enough time!

Good to connect/reconnect with other MV100 users!
 

wcunning

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I'm actually just starting to work on my powerfeed unit. Someone from the other machining forum sent me the blueprints to the powerfeed, and I have most of it. Would you be willing to upload some pictures of the unit you have? I think the biggest things I'm missing are actually the worm gear on the leadscrew, not the parts for the feed unit itself, but I'm not 100% sure yet....

In related news, I have a few questions about the old MV-100 now that there's a non-necropost thread available.

Have any of you had your head apart? Is there a spindle oil reservoir somewhere in there? I've filled the gearboxes, but those take a gearbox oil and I don't see anywhere to fill the spindle itself.

Do any of your MV-100's have any way wipers at all? Mine doesn't and I think that's the source of a lot of my way scoring and general condition of the machine.

Oh, and if anyone wants my partial copy of the manual or the blueprints for the powerfeed, I'll be uploading them this evening when I'm back on my home computer. If you have any documentation, I'd love to see it!

Thanks,
Will
 

wcunning

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I just reread the thread and see that Asm109 posted his documentation. I actually have worse scans of the same information, so I'll be using these pdfs from now on. I do still have the powerfeed blueprints, so those will be up later today.
 

Asm109

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I think the spindle bearings are sealed, no lube required. No way wipers on mine either. Love to see the bps for the power drive.
 

wcunning

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I've attached everything here, including my lesser scan of the manual and the Logan version of the catalog information. I'm going to spend a bit of time trying to identify what exactly is missing from my powerfeed to see if parts from Bruce's powerfeed can fix it.

Thanks,
Will
 

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wcunning

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I'd also like to encourage all of us to take some time to take a few documentary photos of our machines. For instance, do any of you use the coolant tank in the base? I don't even think my pump motor works anymore...
 

Asm109

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My mill has no coolant pump. The holes in the base have some hard plastic plugs in them.
 

wcunning

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Sorry to spam a huge number of posts, but, attached to this one are pictures of the parts of my powerfeed that I do have. It looks to me like I'm missing 1) the handle that controls whatever those springs? clutches? are to get the variable speed; 2) the bevel gear that gets pinned to the worm gear to do forward or reverse switching like in the gearbox of the old Atlas lathe I used to have; 3) the motor and whatever motor pulley setup that's supposed to get this thing spinning to begin with; and 4) the matching gear to the worm that actually drives the keyway in the leadscrew.

Brucepts: how many of those parts do you have? How many of them would you be willing to part with? I'm happy to pay for parts and for shipping...

Everyone else: Could you take pictures of the handle that sets speed? The arrangement around the handle too, please?

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wcunning

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Asm109: I read the quote below on the other forum, posted by member Chasport, and it makes me think that I'm missing something and should be oiling the spindle...

"I have restored mine and have had everything apart exept the drive shaft to head seal & bearing. very important the info that is out there does not mention the toilet seat oil fill port on top of the spindle that needs to be filled with #10 spindle oil. what do you need to know and what ser # is yours. Does it have the power feed and how long is the table and what brand name is on it."
 

Brucepts

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I'll try and get out to the shed in the next day or two to take some pics of the power feed parts. If you can use any of it we can work something out. I'm not going back to using any of it and I doubt my machine will be a "treasure" for someone to put back to original.

My spindle leaks oil so I know it's getting oil from somewhere :)
 

Brucepts

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Interesting, my power feed looks similar but has gears instead of the variable speed setup like yours. The variable speed setup looks like the same thing they use for the power down feed inside the mill. I was missing the engage and direction lever. Other than that I think I have everything else.

Thanks for the extra information you posted!

Edit to add pics:

feed parts.jpg
gear box - 2.jpg
gear box -1.jpg
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wcunning

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Brucepts: Mine is missing all of the motor attachment pieces on the bottom (the pulley to the gearbox shaft, the idler and its mount, the belt and, well, the whole motor). Mine is also missing the bevel gear pinned to the worm shaft and the worm wheel that rides on the table lead screw. If you were willing to part with those parts, I'd be very interested. Heck, if you don't want to deal with teardown to send me just those parts, I'd happily take the whole pile and see what it takes to cobble it all together on my end, with however much help the folks in this thread can give me. I PM'd you and we can work out what exactly you want to do.

Update on my powerfeed: I spent some time in the shop sink with 6 oz of mineral spirits cleaning the darn thing up good enough to feel like I can handle it. My entire MV100 came in such a filthy, sorry state that it hardly bears description, and the partial powerfeed is no exception. I had to pick quite a few small metal chips out of that complicated cam stack arrangement, and I'm still not 100% sure I got them all, but it's way better than it was. Now that I can really see what I'm dealing with, I've noticed a few unpleasant spots on the cams, and I'm sorely tempted to tear the thing completely apart, remake a few things, draw it all up in CAD (Onshape, if anyone here has any expertise in that one) and put it back together just singing, potentially even with some new bearing bronze sleeves to keep realign everything, since I'm sure the ones there are pretty worn. Have any of you had the cam arrangement in the quill downfeed apart before?

Thanks,
Will
 

wcunning

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Can someone with a powerfeed take a picture of the nameplate on their motor? I want to see what I should be buying to not go too big.

Thanks,
Will
 

wcunning

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I talked to a couple of the mechanical engineers at work, and it turns out that the mechanism in the both the power quill down feed and the table power feed (on mine, not Bruce's original) are called Zero-Max drives[0]. The original patent, which looks a lot less like this power feed speed adjustment box than the first link, is here[1]. Interestingly, I was sort of under the impression that the MV100 was only sold in the 50's, and this patent was from the mid-60's...

In other news, I received Bruce's power feed on Monday and I've started disassembling it. I need to verify what, if anything, needs fixing inside that mechanism and decide whether or not I'm putting Bruce's parts on my power feed or my power feed forward/reverse lever on Bruce's. Still, progress is being made, if a bit slowly.


[0] https://www.zero-max.com/cd-adjustable-speed-drives
[1] https://patents.google.com/patent/US3340743A
 

wcunning

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Anyone still monitoring this thread,

Can you measure the travels on your MV100? Or in the alternative, tell me what size DRO scales you're using? The catalog ASM109 posted and the Logan version I had both say 18" of travel on the table, but I measured 24" on mine, edge of table in saddle, or 31" for the length of the threads on the table lead screw. I also measured less height on the knee screw before I was going to run into the spindle, about 12" vs. The catalog's listed 16 5/8."

I have a 42" table, from end to end, 36" if I measure just the t slots and not the troughs on the ends.

Thanks,
Will
 

Brucepts

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I'm confused as to how you are measuring more travel? I get what the book shows for travel although I did not run my knee up and down to verify the manual.

Run the table all the way left or right and make a common mark on the table and knee, run the table in the opposite direction until it stops and then measure distance between the marks. Is that how you are doing it?

I currently have a Sony Magnescale LH10 display setup on mine but have only have one matching scale so I run a second older Sony display/scale so, basically I'm only using the displays and none of the features you would have with a single display. I have not found a second scale that I could use in my price range for my LH10 display right now.

I just bought a "Chinese" 2axis setup for my lathe and will probably end up buying a 3axis for the mill at some pint in the near future. I'm sure that is Heresy to the DRO gods but it works for me.

Buy your scales longer but make sure the overall length of the scale will fit in the space we have to mount it. I have not gotten to that project for the mill yet so I can't recommend scale lengths at this moment. But, will offer help and compare notes as I'm going to be doing it also. Chinese scales can be purchased in various resolutions sizes (slimline) and lengths if you buy direct.
 

wcunning

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Bruce,

I think I have a bigger table than listed in the manual. Mine is 42" instead of the standard one which is 36." The friendly fellow from the other forum that gave me the few documents I posted way up in this thread was also aware of 42" tables being offered, so I don't know if it was a rare upgrade or not.

That said, I got a lot less knee travel than the manual listed, and a lot more table travel, so I think I have to measure all of them myself. I did use the exact method you described, basically making a mark on the saddle where I would mount the scale read head and then marking the table at either end of travel where my "read head" is located, measure the distance between the marks. That got me ~23.7" which I rounded up to 24" based on the binding I was getting in the gibs at the extreme ends of travel where the table was never worn in.

Personally, I'm leaning towards a 4 axis setup with a scale on both the knee and quill and a summing box to tell me the distance from the spindle to the table. I'm also leaning towards a direct-from-China DRO. I've read too many people having problems with the Acu-Rite scales and such to be willing to spend the money on something that's not going to significantly outlast the import.

Thanks,
Will
 

Brucepts

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Interesting, I seem to recall years ago hearing about a larger table but never saw any documentation about it.
 

wcunning

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I finally got a manufacturer's page for Fenlind Engineering over on Vintage Machinery, so I've uploaded all of the "manuals" from this thread over there. I also got in touch with a fellow over on the other forum, and he put me in touch with a neighbor of his who owned an MV-100. I should be getting a large packet of 30 years worth of collected information in the mail this week. I hope to be able to scan and upload everything next weekend, so stay tuned for more info!

Cheers,
Will
 

wcunning

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Most of what I got in the mail today was stuff we already had copies of, though there were a few gems.

First and most importantly, there is a spindle oil cup, at least on my machine and on Jeff's (the fellow owner who mailed me what he had). It's located in the head, down below/inside the housing underneath the main timing belt from the gearbox, between the two sides of the belt going over to the power quill feed. I'll post a picture when I've had a chance to clear up about 50 years of horrid, oily, greasy swarf.

Second, and probably more interestingly to me, apparently Fenlind Engineering was renamed Rock-Mill at some point and continued operations until at least 1985 since Jeff had a quote for parts dated that year. I'm curious if it'd be possible to track down anyone who worked there when they closed shop, since that was only 33 years ago. Maybe there's still a parts source book somewhere if it wasn't pitched in the closing, or a pile of spare parts.

I'll get the few things we didn't already have scanned and uploaded in the next couple of days.

Cheers,
Will
 

wcunning

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As you can see the top of the spindle has a little Gits oiler cup, which, as far as I can see, has nothing in it but a straight hole down into the spindle which should probably be full of nice light weight oil. Unfortunately it would appear that the seal on the bottom of my spindle is 100% shot, so I'll probably have to track one down/figure out how to get to it in the mill... Has anyone had their spindle apart? Has anyone screwed off the piece on the bottom of the spindle/quill with the spanner holes in it?

In other Rockford/Fenlind/Rock-Mill news, it turns out that the company was renamed from Fenlind Engineering at some point to Rock-Mill Inc, which was then later renamed to Production Machine Company, which only closed its doors in 2015 with an auction in Rockford, IL. The man who sold it all off was Steven Hall, who signed the quote for parts in 1985 I mentioned in the last post. Surprisingly recent, all things considered.

Thanks,
Will

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Brucepts

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I forgot all about that oil cup!

Below is some email traffic I had in the past with some other MV-100 owners from back in 2008-2010 time frame from another forum:

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"The top bearing only had a fiber type seal at the top of the bearing so dirt does not get in. It was open at the bottom no grease. The large bearings at the collet end the top bearing open both sides. The bottom one open at the top and another fiber type seal at the very bottom no grease. If you put spindle oil in what else would it lubricate the quill is a sealed tube the spindle rides in the bearings that does not need oil. The manual we have does not even mention the spindle at all."

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"Is your theory that the spindle bearings are lubed by oil? I took my spindle and bearings out of the quill and the bearings were definitely packed with grease. I too had replaced a leaking lip seal and squirted spindle oil through the lidded Gitts fitting at the top of the quill. The oil inside the quill was washing the grease out of my bearings. I concluded the bearings should be lubed with grease and the oil fitting should only be used sparingly to lube the quill."
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Might be of some help?

My mill spindle/quill "nut" has been damaged and I don't have the total spanner holes if you could take a picture of what an undamaged one should look like I'd appreciate it? Thanks.

Will, you are going to be the resident MV-100 historian :)
 

wcunning

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I'm trying to be Bruce! I intend to start a full rebuild sometime around the end of the summer -- rescraping, replacing the spindle bearings, probably a full repaint. When I do, I'll likely start a new thread, probably over in the Machine Reconditioning forum, but we'll see. All in all, I'm miles ahead of where I was when the thing landed in my driveway, since I know what the levers and knobs do now :D

The spindle is rated to run at up to 3700 RPM, so I'm gonna go ahead and say that I strongly believe in low viscosity oil. I'm sure that you can get fully sealed bearings these days rated to that spindle speed and spindle-type preloads, but I wouldn't bet on that being trivially the case in 1950. Then again, my expertise in tribology could be written on a grain of rice, and you wouldn't need a magnifying glass to read it...

My spindle protector is not in good shape -- apparently it's supposed to be held in by three little set screws as far as I can tell from the marks on the spindle and the exploded parts diagram. Mine is rather chewed up instead, thus my incorrect assumption that it was a set of pin spanner holes. I'll probably need to find someone else to mount that up in an indexer, drill those out further and re-tap at the next size up. I'll take some pictures tomorrow.

The seal that I need to replace is a C/R 275127-M1, which I seem to be seeing as a Timken 473452. Does anyone have good suggestions of where to go to order Timken seals? The only quick website I found is a company out of Traverse City and they want like $15.00 for shipping on a $12 seal :( Or Motion Industries who don't seem to have it in stock.

Cheers,
Will
 

Brucepts

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My spindle protector is not in good shape -- apparently it's supposed to be held in by three little set screws as far as I can tell from the marks on the spindle and the exploded parts diagram. Mine is rather chewed up instead, thus my incorrect assumption that it was a set of pin spanner holes. I'll probably need to find someone else to mount that up in an indexer, drill those out further and re-tap at the next size up. I'll take some pictures tomorrow.

Cheers,
Will
I ran down and looked at my spindle cover, never took a good look at it before but it does have 3 set screws in it. Guess I'll pull it off and have a look tomorrow. I know my seal is leaking also.

I also have a spare set of used spindle bearings I was sent years ago and I can get the numbers off of them for reference.
 

wcunning

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I'd really appreciate the numbers off of the spindle bearings. I don't know that I *need* to replace all the bearings on my spindle, but I wouldn't be opposed to the work if it's not insanely expensive. I think I want the rebuild to be a do it all, do it right, do it once kind of job.

When you get into the thing, do you think you could help me figure out how to get the seal out? I'm not sure where to pry or if the giant nut on the bottom needs to be removed (or if the giant nut sets the spindle bearing preload...).

Thanks,
Will

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Brucepts

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That looks like mine so it's possible they are not damaged as bad was we are thinking?

I tried to remove mine a few minutes ago, one set screw was damaged so it took some playing to get it out. I could not get the collar off and didn't want to go any further as I need to use my mill (this was prior to seeing your pics) I see it now just slips on with no threads and the set screws hold it in position.

My thoughts on the seal . . . find a wood screw and screw it into the metal part and pull it out, How I've removed captive seals before on projects. You are installing a new seal so damaged seal is not an issue, just be careful you do not damage the sealing surface on the spindle!

I'll grab some pics of the bearings and numbers in a bit . . .

Bearings I have are:

207 NPP
208 NPP

Both are sealed top and bottom so it appears they are not oil lubed.

MV100bearing.jpgMV100bearing-1.jpgMV100bearing-2.jpg
 
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