Sampson Mill- aka Husky, Grizzly Questions

Andrew R Stewart

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Long post here.

I'm a hobby bicycle frame builder (for about 40 years), local bike shop wrench (for 45 years including a 15 year stint as an owner) and boarding on retirement. I've decided to grow my frame shop (basement and garage) recently with larger tools. One is an 8x30 mill with the brand Sampson". It's well used and been through a few hands if I had to guess. I bought it a five years ago and only got to working with it three years ago. My one year of tool and die in 1982 was a long time ago...

First a thanks to Z2V for the link to the Grizzly mill, G0730/1, that sure looks to be the same basic machine. This has allowed me to look at a few aspects that I had wondered about.

- My mill suffers from about half a rotation of the hand crank's free play on the Y travel. If I understand correctly I need to access the saddle travel half nut to tighten this. But to get to this half nut it looks like I have to remove the table first then the saddle. Is this correct? Or is there another point of access?

_ The mill's "rubber" chip cover is missing. Looking at the Grizzly parts diagrams and my mill I note similar mounting holes for this cover. Thoughts? I suspect these kinds of parts are rather non specific.

- The mill has been used a fair amount without this cover, given the amount of crap down in the saddle I see. At some point I would like to clean it all out (my bicycle servicing standards "first clean then make better".) Removing the table would make this cleaning far easier and likely more complete. How much does the table weigh?

I'll read up the Grizzly manual and make some plans, parts needs. Soon it will be bike repair season (and riding too) so I suspect it will be a while before I dive into my mill. When I do I'll have more questions, that's for sure. Again thanks for the help. Andy
 

Andrew R Stewart

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Took a closer look at the Y/saddle travel half nut and it's accessibility today (with single digit temps in the garage). I can reach it from below the knee when the knee is all the way up. But two interesting findings. First is that the nut doesn't have a slot in it that I can see from below. So no backlash adjusting ability that I see. second is that the nut is not securely tightened to the saddle's underside. I see that it moved back and forth with the Y travel screw nearly the same amount of hand dial slop.

There's no visible access th the "half" nut's mounting bolt or a nut to tighten the "half" nut up against the saddle's underbelly. So I think I'm back to looking to remove the table completely and maybe then the saddle too.

Just eyeballing the table's amount of steel I figure between 100 and 150lbs. of weight. Andy
 

Andrew R Stewart

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Fast forward to late in the retail cycling season and I have time to get back to my mill. I have pulled the table and saddle, cleaned all in my tiny parts cleaner and have some replacement parts on hand. I found all 4 bearings, for the X and Y travel screws to be rough so have new ready to be pressed in before reassembly. Both movements seemed snug and without obvious slop, the gibs weren't at their adjustment ends yet. The sliding surfaces look to have some wear but the scrape marks are still largely visible. Overall I don't see wear issues that will effect my needs. I do have two questions at this point.

First is the Y screw brass nut located under the saddle. I have removed it and find it isn't a split/adjustable lash design. The X travel nut is split. Can one slot, drill and tap the Y nut to create a lash adjustment? It sure seems like a simple thing to do. The lash before disassembly is about 15-20 thou. Quite workable but less would be nice. I figured to duplicate the X nut's split, modded to fit the Y nut.

Second is the lack of lube points for the table's sliding surfaces. The only lube ports are for the knee. I can lay down oil on the Y ways easily enough. But the X ways are up inside and a pain to squirt oil onto. Is there a way to add oil feed holes/passages? I think of drilling through the table, ending on top of each way. Perhaps from the table's sides. Maybe adding a pocket on the table's ways undersides to store oil and spread it out better.

I am very hesitant to mod a machine in a way that is not reversible. The "plan a dozen times, measure a few but cut once" comes to mind.

I'd like to thank those who replied before and helped me get up the gumption to start this. Andy (I am unable to figure out how to post photos so here's a link to my Flicker album. The two nuts are shown in the 8th photo)

 

Mitch Alsup

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Second is the lack of lube points for the table's sliding surfaces. The only lube ports are for the knee. I can lay down oil on the Y ways easily enough. But the X ways are up inside and a pain to squirt oil onto.
I have a G0730.
I lube the upside down ways by
a) moving the table to one end
b) wiping the crap off the ways and gib
c) placing a <large> drop of oil on my finger, and rubbing it on
.....keep repeating until the whole way feels nice and oily
d) move table to other end
e) repeat c on this end

{Yes, I have a one-shot-lube system--I just don't happen to use it for 2 reasons
1) the bed feels smoother when I do it this way
2) I remove the crap instead of just putting more oil on the ways.}
 

Andrew R Stewart

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I should rename this thread as Sampson servicing...

The mill is slowly being reassembled after a lot of cleaning. The table and saddle feed screw bearings have been replaced. It's nice to have less notchy movement now. I slotted and pinch bolted the saddle feed screw nut for lash control. The saddle is back in place with ,001 lash with the feedscrew handle not yet tightened on the stub. I fully expect the lash to grow/settle in with a tad more slop soon enough but vastly better then the .028ish of slop prior to servicing.

Found a couple of 1/4" set screws acting as spacers for the Y travel locking handle. The handle's stud was about 1/2" too short so the last person filled the space with what they has on hand I speculate. A correct length locking handle is on order. (Interesting that it's a 5/16"x 18 and not metric)

Various set screws (for feed screws and such) had buggered threads an/or were 10-32 and not M5 threadings. All in play have been chased to M5 and replacement screws are on hand. The ken's vertical screw and gear are cleaned and lubed, now meshing smoothly.

I'm no master at machine tool servicing but my experience in bicycle adjustable (cup and cone) bearing adjustments are guiding me in the way's gib set up. Smooth travel and no slop. The saddle slides with nearly effort through it's range, only slightly tightening up as it is within an inch or so of the column. Since I hope to add a DRO on the back side of the table this portion of the travel will likely be lost anyways in time.

I need to fabricate new way wipers. the old are kind of hard and miss shaped. 1/4" "rubber" strip is coming for their making. The Grizzley ones I got are not wide enough, as the photo tries to show. I plan to make/add a sheet steel plate to sandwich the wipers and improve their performance. The chip guard on the saddle's front now better tracks with the saddle and closes the knee's cavity better. A new rubber way cover awaits installing (and it's likely trimming and install fitting.)

This servicing is challenging in that I never have done this before but fun in that there are so few parts at play. Nothing is as yet a game breaker. Soon I might make the piece that I need for my real hobby. Funny how sometimes theres a order to the stuff one needs to do before the real project can go forward. Andy
 

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pontiac428

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Looks like you're well on your way. Or ways. Either way, be mindful of how you use grease. It attracts chips like a magnet. If the knee bevel gears are protected, then you're good to go. But anything exposed to flying/falling chips is best left oiled with way oil.

It's funny how most of the chinese mills have UNC bolts all over them. Sure makes it easier to find nice hardware if replacement is needed. I have been obsessed with Kip hand levers and knobs, so I've slowly replaced all the way locks with those or McMaster knobs.

You asked about the rubber chip guard, is that the "mud flap" in the back? Those are easy to make out of whatever rubber sheet you have access to. There is a sheet metal carrier that supports the flap where it bolts to the column that you may need to make. They get cruddy with oil and need to be thrown out after some years. The way scrapers can also be made of rubber and capped with a sheet metal retainer.
 

Andrew R Stewart

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As a bicycle service guy (now the old grizzled guy in back you don't want to poke) for decades I am very familiar with lubes and their grime collection. I do plan on covering the bevel gears access FAR better then they had been. Yes, I have a "rubber" sheet way cover at the ready.

It's interesting how this mill is claimed to be a clone of the Grizzly family yet I find quite a few differences. One is that the way cover mounting holes are not what the new Grizzly mounting strip's are. This will be a very easy mod to do, simple cut a strip and drill in the right spacing. Another difference that will take longer is the saddle's ways are wider across the "Vs" then the G0730/1 are. So that set of widers will need fabricating. Atached is my start on this, a drawing to be cut out, glued to a plate and them rough cut to be fitted and filed as needed. Once this is done the wiper template will be transferred to the rubber sheet I have coming. Spit lubed hobby knife will cut this out easily. Then I suspect more hand trimming and hole locating to finish. I plan on using a slightly smaller sized steel plate as the pressure "sandwich" to better control the wiper's shape and contact. Andy
 

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Silverbullet

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Are you planning on adding an oiling system drip or pressurized. Tubing and fittings are cheap investment , fresh way oil used when using the mill will make it smoother . Some oil grooves can be added easily . A line to each nut will guaranty less wear. With new wipers it should work like a new machine. If you look up Bridgeport rebuilding on YouTube they show the entire set up to one pump lube to the machines working ways and nuts. The pump lubes are cheap on eBay.
 

Radials

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I did a full disassembly and somewhat of a restomod on my 8x30 milling machine variant. Along the way I order many parts from grizzly and found that most of them did fit. The way wiper on mine was in perfect condition but I did end up improving on it a little. The rear cover was missing and I ended up using some roll rubber purchased from McMaster to make my own.

The one shot oiler on mine came with the machine and is nice but its really only a good attempt as it isn't totally effective at oiling all the surfaces. I do also manually wipe oil on either the surfaces I know the system doesn't get any oil to. Having used the mill for some time now there are things I with I would have corrected while the machine was disassembled but I might get back to those here one day.

I bring this rebuild thread up to date as I left off on it some time ago I now see.

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/8x30-milling-machine-restoration.73847/

Good Luck!
 

Andrew R Stewart

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Radials- It was your thread that gave me much motivation and inspiration for my service my mill. I do see some differences on castings and form between our mills, glad yours was more Grizzly compatible then mine seems to be. I will re read your thread and look forward to your follow ups.

I don't use my mill much, or when I do use it time isn't the issue. I cut tubing miters and make some basic/simple gadgets with it. I have wondered about a one shot oiler but don't think the small gain is worth the large effort. As Mitch does I add oil to the ways each time I run it and when I took the saddle/table off the ways looked pretty nice for a few decades old. I will continue to do this lubing for now. Although it was the oil "valleys" in your machine's ways that got me thinking about grinding some trenches/pockets for oil to pool in and spread from. I think I won't try this mod just yet. I do suspect this won't be the last time I take things apart either:) Thanks for your post and experience. Andy
 

Andrew R Stewart

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More progress which sometimes means mistakes:) I started to make replacement way wipers and initially tried rubber like what came with the mill. Got 1/4" thick rubber sheeting and some steep plate from McMaster Carr. Made a template of the general shape and hole location (more on this soon) from a piece of clear plastic from the local hobby shop. Hand cut the steel plates and the rubber then punched holes in the rubber only to find out that each wiper had slightly differing placement of the holes. I also began to understand that rubber wanted pretty snug fit up to do a good job. So back to the thinking stage. I read that felt has been used for the wiper seal and thought well of it's greater shape accommodation and my poor layout skills. So felt was attempt #2. Here's a couple of shots of this progression. One is of the rubber efforts and the other shot is the felt before I punch holes in them. The tubes with beveled ends are the hole punches I made up. The spoke is the plug push out tool. This sits on my 2'x3' steel surface plate cover (the best birthday present a wife can give one of us, well maybe the second best:)).

We expect a rainy day Wednesday (tomorrow is warm and dry so after the vet visit for my 12 year old cat I go riding my bike) and I plan to install the wiper seals and hopefully the table too. More story to come soon. Andy
 

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Radials

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The front wiper on my machine was is good condition but I did do something similar to what you're doing. The wiper does want to fit snug like you mentioned. Mostly done with the section between the two dovetails slightly undersized to provide a little squeeze on the dovetail when installed. I used my wiper as a template and cut out a piece of felt to go behind it to retain oil and brush it across the dovetail when in use. Then in front of it I cut out an aluminum plate mostly to act as a washer for the SHCS since both the rubber wiper and the felt wiper would deform when they were tightened down. I wish I would have made up some more wipers for the back side of the saddle and on at least the top of the knee as it looks like that's your plan. For those I plan just to put the felt on with the aluminum plate an forgo the rubber as the primary job of these will be for oiling as there is a way cover over all of this area protecting it from most of the chips. This will be on the list to do when I end up taking the table and saddle off again in the future.

I didn't mention it before but I'm also a big fan of the hand made bicycle industry. Exciting you're doing some building with your machine!
IMG_6837.jpg
 

Andrew R Stewart

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The mill is reassembled and function. I finished the way wipers, installing them and the table today. Lash is much less then before (one big goal). The felt wipers lay down a nice slick of oil. Grizzly sourced Absolute digital scales (for X and Y) are ordered. Still to be done is the big flappy saddle way cover install but that will wait for the table scale install first. For now rags will cover the knee opening.

A side story and thumbs up- I ordered a 2" bar stock from Speedy Metals about 3 weeks ago. Never got a tracking # or delivery and a few days ago began the follow up. Turns out the package is in some galaxy at the Hodgkins, IL facility, but UPS can't say which galaxy... when I called them only got a pretty bureaucratic response (fill out emailed form for possible reimbursement). Called Speedy Metals and there Tera took care of me. She reordered the bar stock and will seek UPS claim on their end. That's customer service! Andy
 

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