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Scraping Class in GA-Anybody interested?

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CSudd

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#1
I was just wondering if there is anyone on here interested in attending a Rich King scraping seminar in March/April 2013 in GA? There were a couple of guys besides myself that had expressed some interest in a class in the southeast in the "What is Scraping?" thread a couple of weeks ago. If you are interested let me know what dates in March or April that would work for you and once we get some input from folks that are interested in attending we could nail down a more specific date. I know theres got to be more than 2 or 3 guys that live in the southeast that would be interested in doing this....


Thanks,

Craig
 

geraldsd

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#2
How long would the class last? I am interested, but have full-time employment.
 

Operator4100

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Good Morning, I wish I had the time for the class, gonna be on a job in southeast Ga. by then. I'm sure that would be a fun class.
 

Vince_O

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Id be intrested in doing it. I have my tractor show in the spring, havent set a date with the land owner, but Im still intrested. Will there be anything else talked about, me being new to the use of metal working equipment, I need all the help I can get! My wife says I need alot of help :nono:

If theres a mailing list on updates of the class, please put me on it vinceochiuto@charter.net
 

Richard King

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They are now in the planning stages and looking for folks and times they can come. If you can or want to talk about it Private message CSudd, who posted a few before me here. Just in case you don't know how, click his name on top left of post and a box appears and then click private message. I gave him the option of the number of days, but in order to make it fly we need 6 to 10 people paying we should be able to swing a 3 day class. The last class we did in MN we had 5 guys who took the full 5 day class and 5 days is an option too if you guys want to do that. I live here so I didn't need to rent a motel room so it was cheaper then a GA class. We are estimating the costs now, but as people tell us they are coming we can make it firm amount. The more people the lower the price. I did put the costs on this here, but deleted them. I don't want to talk money in the public. Send a private message and we will exchange email address's.

Tadd who is rebuilding his South Bend Lathe and is posting his progress in this forum, was there for 2 days. The host of that class has been rebuilding his bigger then a Rung-fo Mill on his own. In that class we had 2 guys who could only come 1 day a few other did 2 days, one guy from Canada came for 4 days. I ha d a class in AL a few years ago and we did a Fri, Sat and Sun class. we had 4 full time guys and 2 no - shows. but they paid anyway. I drove 2 days to go there and 2 days back home, paid for my motel and food. I figured I about broke even. So in ll of these future classes we will need to get 1/2 down ASAP in a Bank Check or Money Order and the day of the class balance due.

I plan on flying to GA and Craig or someone will pick me up, so I can save on the car rental. He is checking on some motel group rates. I will mail or UPS my tools I need to teach the class, the airlines charge I think $75.00 for extra bags. I use to bring 2 tool boxes of tools and supplies. The class will be based around giving You the confidence and know how to rebuild your machines. I will show you how to use a precision level, how to align the ways of a machine, how to hand scrape and hand flake, I will have 4 Biax power scrapers with and those who want to know how to use them, can plus I will have a Biax power 1/2 moon scraper. Some guys in the MN class only wanted to use a hand scraper because they figured they would never buy one and only hand scrape. I don't care, that option is open to you. I will ask that everyone has a hand scraper, I can send you plns on making one, or you can buy one from a couple of sources.

You can bring along a project. The MN class a few brought a straight-edge and I helped them scrape it, one brought his Chinese Mini lathe we improved the ways on it as it come new loose and would not cut. Another couple of guys brought the compounds off their South Bend Lathes and we scraped them and fitted the gibs with wear-strips. In the AL class we had 3 years ago, we aligned the tails stock on his engine lathe he had in his shop.

In the Dallas class we rescraped the saddle ways on his Bridgeport. In my classes I teach at factories we usually level and align the lathe department lathes. I split the them up into 2 person teams and each does a lathe. I will also show everyone how to scrape a tapered gib, how to adjust it, how to replace spindle bearings, lubrication, what ever we have time for. One of the Dallas guys said " the info was like drinking from a fire hose", I had a student tell me he felt as if I was his Father teaching him so he could follow in his foot steps. I promise you after the class you will have the confidence to repair your machines. Those who take at least 3 days will receive a copy of my DVD and a work booklet of "Tips of the Trade" to keep. I also will always be ready to help you in person or on the phone is you need help. In person isn't free unless you just down the block.

I always am looking for hosts for classes, we have 2 or 3 guys in the NE who want to go to a class, but not host has come forward. I am 80% positive we will be doing one in the Bay area of CA in the spring or early summer as we have a host and a couple of people already interested. But for the GA class if your close to him, contact him directly.
Rich.
PS The hosts are free. But they have to do the organizing and supply the shop and all that intails.
 
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Vince_O

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#6
Richard

With someone like me not really knowing a thing, would this be over my head or something to come to just to learn how to repare my little lathe? I really dont have any tooling or even know what you guys are talking about but always eager to learn new things.

Im not far away from where you guys will be doing the class, and will pass this info to a friend that lives in the area.

Thanks Vince
 

geraldsd

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I am interested definitely. Need to know the days so that I can make arrangements. I look forward to learning!
 

CSudd

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Hey guys,
I have been away from my computer for a couple of days and haven't had a chance to reply. The guy that would be hosting the class is located in Pine Mountain, GA. Are most of you guys interested in doing a 3 day class? Does anybody want to do 5 days? It would make things easier for people that still work if we could do this on a holiday weekend,but the only holiday weekend that we have in March/April is the weekend of Easter. Good Friday is on March 29 and I get that day off, but I'm not sure about everyone else. I was just thinking that it might make it easier for folks that still work because they wouldn't have to ask for time off if we did the class on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. As Rich said in his post if you have specific questions about course content, cost, etc. send him a PM.

Craig
 

petcern

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#9
I am interested in 5 days if Richard and the guy hosting it can do it. I tried sending PM to Richard but the system said he has exceeded allowed messages quota and the PM didn't go through. How do I sign up for the class?

- Petras
 

Richard King

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The host will be Tommy Brooks, Tommy Brooks <tommybrooks_2011@yahoo.com> You guys and gals can work with him or Craig. I will do the teaching but the hosts usually do the organizing. You can always write me for technical questions. Richard@Handscraping.com I deleted the old PM's so it should work now. Tommy has a huge shop with lots of benches and some nice machines. It will be a great class. Sign up early so we can start making the arrangements. Rich
 

CSudd

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The scraping class is going to be held on the first weekend in April which is April 5,6, & 7. The class will be held in Pine Mountain, GA and the host is Tom Brooks. If you you have your own hand and/or power scrapers you can bring those with you to use at the class, but if not we can work around that. You can also bring along a project to work on. Based on the feed back that I got, most people are more interested in doing a 3 day class. Is anyone interested in doing 5 days? What are your specific interests? Richard will need to know so he can plan what to teach. If you have any questions or want to attend you can contact me, Tom, or Richard.

Thanks,
Craig
craigsudderth@rocketmail.com
 

geraldsd

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The scraping class is going to be held on the first weekend in April which is April 5,6, & 7. The class will be held in Pine Mountain, GA and the host is Tom Brooks. If you you have your own hand and/or power scrapers you can bring those with you to use at the class, but if not we can work around that. You can also bring along a project to work on. Based on the feed back that I got, most people are more interested in doing a 3 day class. Is anyone interested in doing 5 days? What are your specific interests? Richard will need to know so he can plan what to teach. If you have any questions or want to attend you can contact me, Tom, or Richard.

Thanks,
Craig
craigsudderth@rocketmail.com
First, I don't have any scraping tools. What specifically should I buy? I would like to start out with a hand scraper. Second, a three day class is best for me. I am only one person, though. Third, I have an older mill and lathe. I want to know how to make them the best that they can be at this point in their service lives. I know that they may not be "like new." I just want them serviceable.
 

Richard King

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#13
If you do not have tool, no problem, I will bring everything you will need. With that said it would be handy if you have a hand scraper. I use the professional brand BIAX Universal made in Germany. I have students that copied them and made there own from steel they bought at Home Depot and MSC for under $50.00. To the people interested in a class PLEASE email The hosts or I. I will be calculating the price per student this weekend. We will E-mail you. I do not want to talk price on the Forum as I feel it violates the rules. So Email one of us or private message us. I will write a Post "how to make a scraper" soon. I also believe Home Machine Shop Magazine had a series on scraping too, where they described how to make one. I prefer you have flexible springy scraper with a carbide tip. I will write more later. I need to get to work. Have a great day! Rich
 

Richard King

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#14
Re: Scraping Class in GA-IF interested sign up by Feb 15?

To all who live in the SE and want to learn how to scrape our deadline is Feb 15 for the GA. The class to is scheduled for a long weekend 30 to 36 hour class, April 5, 6 , 7th and a couple more days if enough want to stay a few more days rebuilding their machine with my supervision. Contact Craig, Tommy or me.

Thanks and see you there.

Rich
 
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Tommy Brooks

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#15
Re: Scraping Class in GA-IF interested sign up by Feb 15?

To all who live in the SE and want to learn how to scrape our deadline is Feb 15 for the GA. The class to is scheduled for a long weekend 30 to 36 hour class, April 5, 6 , 7th and a couple more days if enough want to stay a few more days rebuilding their machine with my supervision. Contact Craig, Tommy or me.

Thanks and see you there.

Rich
I have a 1943 Southbend 10" lathe in which the compound and crossslide are loose in center of travel. If you tighten the gibs to stop chatter, then at the end of travel it is too tight. Would this class help someone learn to scrape the ways so as to solve this problem?

Tom
 

Richard King

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#16
Dear Brooksie,

That would be the perfect thing to bring. In the Dallas weekend class I did a couple of years ago one of the students brought his South Bend saddle, cross-slide and compound slide with. After he learned to scrape on out test piece (I supply) , he started on his cross-slide. I brought several side straight-edges and some of the guys did too. I brought a small King-Way gauge and they had dowel pins and a set of mic's.

On Sunday when he left for home he had his rescraped cross slide saddle, cross-slide and gib fit and his compound practically fitted.

He worked his behind off, but with the help of another student who didn't have a project and my instruction we were able to do it. One thing I do is stop the class and have the students show and tell what they are doing. I have found over the years one learns better if he can show and tell to his new found friends. The class I taught in Ashland WI, 2 1/2 years ago they students write each other now and share their projects. I hope all my student can set up a network of new friends and share and teach the new generation of rebuilders I am creating. Rich

PS: That student is the one who coined the "he learned so much he felt he was drinking from a fire hose" ha ha
 

Richard King

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#17
We have 3 students who have sent their down payment plus the host are ready to take the class. We need 3 more students to make it happen. If you want to learn how to scrape and live in the SE this will be the only class we will have there this year.
I have given the cut off date of Feb 15. To be a go / no go.

Rich
 

Richard King

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#18
Re: Scraping Class in GA-......E-BAY AD

Hi again, I just thought let you look at the E-Bay Ad I have on the class.
Here is the Item number.
170980860604
 

rowbare

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#19
Richard: I have signed up for the GA class and was wondering when you would be able to get around to posting "How to make a scraper" that you referred to earlier.

thanks
bill a.
Bill,

Richard is sitting on a cruise ship for the next couple of weeks...

bob
 

Richard King

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#20
Hi All,

Thanks Bill for helping answer....the ship is charging me .047 a min to write, I couldn't find an internet today in Dominica....but I will send the students an email on the scraper and discuss the class and progects when I return. It looks like we have 5 paid students as of now. We need one more and can take 4 more if any of you are sitting on the fence. If you look at the Iowa class payment schedule. I will work with you on payments, if you want to pay me in payments. I am concerned now about doing a class...and do not want to disappoint the guys who are signed up. It is so hot down here, I think I have sunstroke....lol...you poor folks on the east coast, I here Boston might get 3 feet of snow over the weekend.....OFDAH (MN talk, means oh sh_t (ha ha)!!

Even MN doesn't get 3 feet.....

Take care.
Rich

PS I will be back home next week. Tues...or Wed...
 

george wilson

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#21
Exactly WHAT kind of steel can you buy at Home Depot to make a scraping tool from? A file?
 

Richard King

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#22
We now have 5 paid and the host for the class in GA April 5-7 . The host is Brooksie and CSudd who have written below. PM them .. We need 1 more student to make it happen, so if you sign up we can do the class.

We have room for 2 to 4 more students, so if you know anymore please tell them to write Brookie or CSudd. CS has his emial address below too.

Thanks,

Rich
 

george wilson

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#23
How can you scrape in a cross slide without the whole lathe present and be at all sure that the cross slide will be perfectly aligned so that the lathe will face flat? I used to rebuild lathes. Also WHAT steel can you buy at Home Depot to make a scraper with??????? I'd really like an answer,please.
 

Richard King

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#24
How can you scrape in a cross slide without the whole lathe present and be at all sure that the cross slide will be perfectly aligned so that the lathe will face flat? I used to rebuild lathes. Also WHAT steel can you buy at Home Depot to make a scraper with??????? I'd really like an answer,please.
It's easy, you follow the original signs from when the lathe was new. I use the original machined area's that are clearance surfaces now to guide me through the process. The area between ways or top of cross-slide that was machined or ground at the factory when the machine was build is not worn and you can use it as a guide to check parallelism, I also use the screw and many times the ways on the ends are not worn and you have to be a dectective to disover unworn area's to follow as a guide. One can scrape the top of the saddle ways parallel and when you go home you scrape the bottom of the saddle to the bed to square it to the travel of the bed. If the bed is worn you won't get it perfect, but it will be so much better then what it was before you did it. Many make the mistake and go hog wild rebuilding everything when all you need is a "tune-up".

Plan old bar stock to make the scraper. I use 3/16 x 1 1/8 x 18" long and you cut a tang on one end that looks like a file. Then I drill 2 holes in it to mount a Biax 30-150 carbide tipped blade to it. If you look at some of the pictures in the posts on this site you will see pictures of that scraper laying next to a Biax brand. Tadd who has a tread on rebuilding his South Bend lathe in this catagory shows a scraper he made by hand. I have had students use the same technique using Home Depot steel to make the handle and silver solder a carbide blade they bought from DAPRA, Sandvik or MSC to the end.

I have also been rebuilding lathes for over 40 years, taught at new machine builders in Taiwan, the USA and Turkey. I am and have been the USA DAPRA / USA BIAX Scraping Instructor for over 30 years. I have taught over 20,000 students in my 35+ years of teaching at 8 divisions of GM, Cumins, Timken, 6 USA government rebuild centers/shipyards, John Deere, G&L Machine, Hardinge, Drake CNC Grinder, dozens of new machine builders in Taiwan.
I can scrape and rebuild lathes, mills, grinders, CNC VMC, HMC, etc. etc.

I am not self taught, I was taught by my Dad, Herman Red King, the inventor of the King-Way Alignment gage and a lifetime machine rebuilder. I learned to scrape when I was 12 when my Dad would bring home Boyer Schultz and Myford grinder tables so my brother and we could "play on", we worked weekends, summers for my dad in our teens, I started to work full time for him as an apprentice when I was 18 and am now 62, I still operate a rebuilding company called King-Way Scraping Consultants and have recently rebuild 2 Drake CNC thread grinders, when I return from by vacation next week, I will complete a Betley double disk grinder I am rebuilding now.

I show my students "tricks of the trade" that I have learned with my 50 years of experience. I say scraping is easy to learn how to , but knowing where to scrape and how much to take off is a "trade". If you have an open mind and willing to follow common sense mechanics, buy a couple of books and PRACTICE you can rebuild machines after taking my classes. I offer weekend, week, and weeks classes. I guarantee I can teach someone to scrape in 2 days and learn simple tricks of the trade on 3 to 5 days or you get your money back. In my 35+ years of training I have never had to pay anyone their money back. Take a look at the references on my web-site handscraping.com look at posts from my former students on the other popular machine forums archives. Check out "Dallas Class and Ashland WI".

Good Day!
 
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george wilson

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#25
Thank you for the answer and explanation. I was wondering if you had any connection to the King Way Alignment Tool. When I rebuilt lathes,I had to keep testing the cross slide alignment against the face plate,and was wondering how you could do without the lathe present.
 

Richard King

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When I teach rebuilding I want to keep the cross-slide square to the bedways. I teach as you rebuild any machine there is some simple rules to follow. With a fixed non removeable head-stock you have to start there and woork your way out and keep everything square and parallel to it and compensating for sag and tool pressure. With a removeable headstock you start at the base and work to it scraping for sag and tool pressure. If a machine is worn, like a lahe bed you square the cross-slide to the bed where there is little wear. I talk with the owner of the machine and find out what type if work is the most critical to him; facing or turning. One can twist the bedways to compinsate for wear near the headstock.

There are many things one must take into consideration when making a "tune-up" repair. If I was going to do a total rebuild, I always scrape the saddle to a square on the travel to the bedways and aligning the headstock last as it adjustable by scraping it, or some of the machines you can adjust them as they swivel on a pin. Playing detective and asking question before the repair / rebuild is the key. I also suggest you follow the book "Testing Machine Tools" which show the spec's. of new machines. You can also get the ASME spec's online. I never scrape a saddle to a faceplate as the saddle must be square to the bed and if the head-stock is aligned to the bed-ways properly it will face correctly.

I also teach "there are several ways to skin a cat" as long as you get the results you want in the same amount of time, DO IT! In all my years of machine building and rebuilding the people who say their way is the best are fools. I have an open mind to all idea's. But I have tried several methods over the years and find the ways I was taught and teach seem to work quite well.

My dad use to tell me, "when your not learning something new everyday" your dead." When you stop making a mistake now and then, your dead".....and "when you think you know it all your a FOOL."

Please contribute your methods to the forum as you years of experience will help us all.

Have a great day.

Rich
 

george wilson

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#28
I didn't scrape the saddle square to the headstock,I scraped the cross slide dovetail to be square,after taking care of the ways first. Most lathes(in gov't.spec) are,of course,allowed to face a little hollow,as we know. I prefer my lathe to turn true cylinders and face flat as I'm not doing flange work. That's just my preference.

As I've gotten older,and have permanent back injuries,I've found easier ways to earn a buck!!

Scraping is what you do. Keep at it.:) Do keep teaching others. That's very important.
 

CSudd

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#29
We've got 5 students. We need to get 1 more student to make this class happen. The cut off date is Feb 15. Come on guys I know theres got to be 1 more person out there that wants to learn to scrape and rebuild their machines.

Craig
 

Richard King

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We've got 5 students. We need to get 1 more student to make this class happen. The cut off date is Feb 15. Come on guys I know theres got to be 1 more person out there that wants to learn to scrape and rebuild their machines.

Craig

I just got home tonight and it looks like we have enough students now. Craig and I will be getting our heads together and make a list and then send everyone the DVD and work booklet. We will also include a list of the students, so you can email each other and possible commute or double up if you want. Please prepare a list of the scraping equipment you will be bringing and your projects so when I email you, you can write me back.
I know a couple of you don't have a project, but Tommy and I will have something for you work on.
Thanks for coming through and signing up. We will have a great time.
Rich
 
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