[4]

seized spindle bearings

[3]
[10] Like what you see?
Click here to donate to this forum and upgrade your account!

savarin

Active User
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
1,959
Likes
2,964
#1
Not happy Jan. (any Aussies here will get that)
Almost finished milling the cross slide extension when the lathe wouldnt start again.
The spindle bearings appear to have seized, the head stock was hot.
I let it cool down and when I manually rotated the chuck it was stiff and I could feel a roughness in the bearing so I'm assuming its stuffed.
Its only around 6 years old but I must admit I have hammered it a bit.
Now the main question -
How difficult is it replacing the bearings?
Any hints or tips available? (other than the rebuilding a 9x20 manual)
 

Downunder Bob

H-M Supporter - Sustaining Member
Staff member
H-M Platinum Supporter ($50)
Joined
May 16, 2016
Messages
1,037
Likes
422
#2
Not good news Charles. and of course not happy Jan. Do you have an owners manual, or any drawings of the insides I'm guessing you will have to take the top off and see what the go is. did it make any noises leading up to the event. I will happily send you copies of my manual, but I suspect there are too many differences. But i'm sure there are others her with generic 9x20 as you call it.

Good luck.
 

Moper361

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 15, 2017
Messages
205
Likes
352
#3
Struth cobber sounds like the bearings might be cactus .
Can you get the lid off to have a sticky beak on the inside and see what's going on in the cog box .
In all fairness I've not had one apart but I don't think there would be a great deal to changing them .
Caution would be needed when fitting new bearings onto shaft or into housing a induction heater maybe required if they are a tight fit on shaft and be vigilant with the preload setting depending on type of bearing used and periodically check it after running a few times .
Do you have a diagram on break down of unit
If your wondering yes I am Australian to but not lived there for years lol
 

middle.road

Actively Learning...
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Apr 28, 2014
Messages
1,530
Likes
824
#5
Freeze the shaft and heat the bearings?
Is this a gear head or a plain head? Post a pic please, I've not had my coffee yet and am not up to searching.
And now on a serious note, I have my cuppa, and am going to go read TomS' attachment. (Anyone seen my reading glasses?)
 

HBilly1022

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Messages
508
Likes
909
#7
That sucks! You've done a lot of high quality work on that lathe. Hope you get it back in working order real soon.

TomS, i read the pdf and found it very interesting and informative. Very nice find and offer of assistance. :encourage:
 

Downwindtracker2

Active User
Registered
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
356
Likes
143
#8
This is as complicated as it gets.
. His touch on bearing clearance is worth watching . Mine was much easier. On my Taiwanese generic 1224 , when I changed the belt and bearing seals, I did the spindle bearings for no other reason than I was there. Pulling the spindle was fairly easy, getting the rest of the stuff out of the way was a little more difficult.. If your bearings are cup and cone , Timken style, like mine, it's same as doing the bearings on a trailer. When they made these lathes, they made the fits on the loose side, easier to build, making repair also easy. I used the freezer and a heat lamp, but I likely could got away without.
 

savarin

Active User
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
1,959
Likes
2,964
#10
no, this is a very basic lathe.
The pdf from TomS is spot on with pics and information that I would not have considered.
 

hman

Active User
H-M Platinum Supporter ($50)
Joined
Feb 17, 2013
Messages
1,845
Likes
1,485
#11
Once you have the old bearings out, be sure to check that the oilers atop the headstock really do connect to the bearing area. I've seen reports about some 9x20s where the oilers simply dead-ended, and oil never got to the bearings. Best of luck with your repairs!
 

savarin

Active User
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
1,959
Likes
2,964
#12
Hmm, no oilers on this machine.
That was going to be my next question once I had the spindle out and had a good look whether grease or oiler points would be worth it.
 

Moper361

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 15, 2017
Messages
205
Likes
352
#13
Hmm, no oilers on this machine.
That was going to be my next question once I had the spindle out and had a good look whether grease or oiler points would be worth it.
I know mine is same no such oil feed lines as per what I watched in Downwinds video .but going buy the video posted it is quite informative for future reference .
 

Downwindtracker2

Active User
Registered
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
356
Likes
143
#14
If remember right, those bearings were on what I call a K taper. The bearing clearances are reduced by tightening the wedge action of the taper. They are common in industry. Unless we get a semi professional lathe, we are not going to see them. Those bearing cost more than our lathes. Watch his touch on setting the bearings.

I put in a bid on a Standard Modern that had been run out of oil. I'm kind of glad I came in third, close but no $2000 bearing bill over the bid price.
 
Last edited:

Moper361

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 15, 2017
Messages
205
Likes
352
#15
If remember right, those bearings were on what I call a K taper. The bearing clearances are reduced by tightening the wedge action of the taper. They are common in industry. Unless we get a semi professional lathe, we are not going to see them. Those bearing cost more than our lathes. Watch his touch on setting the bearings.

I put in a bid on a Standard Modern that had been run out of oil. I'm kind of glad I came in third, close but no $2000 bearing bill over the bid price.
Yes that style of tapper to set preload is quite coo on in mining on conveyor Plummer blocks we used to set up the same by pulling the tapper into inner race making it expand for preload .

Quite possibly you were on a win not getting the lathe that had been run dry that could be a bit pricey to repair
 

Bi11Hudson

Artificer00
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Feb 13, 2017
Messages
221
Likes
254
#17
I don't know if my G-1550 (Grizzly) is exactly the same as your's. But, as a 9X19 Taiwanese should be close.

I have had the spindle out several times. While I was fitting stuff, not for failure. On the outboard left side, there is a locknut, with locking grub screw. A spanner was included in the factory tool kit just for this. With that nut off, removing the pulley and miscellaneous shim pieces should be a piece of cake.

Using a scrap of 2X4, hammer the spindle out the chuck end. On mine, it just slid out. With damaged bearings, it may need a little force.

They are tapered roller bearings, similar to trailer wheels. Just smaller... ... If you replace the rollers, you should replace both races. In my book, anyway. Removal of the races you will be on your own. Replacing the spindle, I used the same locking proceedure as wheel bearings. Snub it up and then back off one notch of the lock nut. Time would be on the order of 1 Hr plus parts.

Bill Hudson​
 

middle.road

Actively Learning...
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Apr 28, 2014
Messages
1,530
Likes
824
#18
Still, it was a Standard Modern with all the accessories.
Yeah, most definitely. But, how long was it operated 'dry', probably until it seized & stopped.
Like that auction that I posted back in January, they look like one heck of a quality lathe. I'd take one.
Those (10) went for 2k - 4k in rough condition.
 

john.k

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 4, 2018
Messages
32
Likes
14
#19
if you freeze the spindle,you will find droplets of water under the bearings and in the radius space next time you try to pull the bearings.....Freezing works ok on motorbike bearings,but the motors get hot enough to boil off the water.....lathes dont.
 

hman

Active User
H-M Platinum Supporter ($50)
Joined
Feb 17, 2013
Messages
1,845
Likes
1,485
#20
Hmm, no oilers on this machine.
That was going to be my next question once I had the spindle out and had a good look whether grease or oiler points would be worth it.
Just took a photo of mine. Note the ball oilers on the top surface of the headstock. I know that at least one of them works, because I get a drool of oil below the spindle for a few days after oiling. But as we'd discussed (offline), your 9x20 differs from my G4000 ... among other things, the location of the handwheel on the carriage. Hope you can get the headstock lube issue worked out.

PS - If you need Grizzly or GITS ball oilers, let me know!
kHPIM5707.jpg
 

C-Bag

Ned Ludd's bro
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Feb 9, 2017
Messages
505
Likes
343
#21
Hmm, no oilers on this machine.
That was going to be my next question once I had the spindle out and had a good look whether grease or oiler points would be worth it.
I'm pretty sure mine is the same and there are no oilers/grease points. On mine it's easy to take off the cover that has the spindle gearing etc on it off the headstock and you can see the bearings. There's no way to retain the grease or to drill a gallery to install a zirk to grease it with. With the right grease I don't think it's necessary. It would seem the new headstock for the Grizzly 9x19 has oilers so maybe they updated?
 

savarin

Active User
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
1,959
Likes
2,964
#22
The pulley came of easy but the gear wheel was a bit of a struggle.
bearing-removal-1.jpg
The first shock was when the shield popped off with a hell of a bang
bearing-removal-2.jpg
The rest went ok with no challenges.
As you can see at the chuck end of the spindle all the grease had dried out and the rollers are pitted with wear marks in both races.
bearing-removal-3.jpg
Now I have to get the inner race off the chuck end of the spindle, I dont see two screwdrivers being able to accomplish this. Of course if I had a lathe I could turn up a puller bracket.
Looking at the headstock I can see where I could easily drill and install grease nipples to pack into the gap between each bearing and its inner shield.
It looks as if this is what was designed in but never got done.
 

HBilly1022

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Messages
508
Likes
909
#23
Great progress and it looks like nothing major got hurt. As long as you can find the necessary bearings and races, you should be back in business soon.

For the last race, I learned a trick, from the internet of course, that might work for you. If you have a welder you could run a small bead around the inside of the race and when it cools the race will shrink and just fall out. I did this on my skidsteer and it worked great. Just be very careful not to run the welder too hot and melt through the race.
 

Downwindtracker2

Active User
Registered
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
356
Likes
143
#24
On well designed machines there are a couple of notches in the housing to hammer out the cups. If they aren't there, it's good karma to grind some. As I said, mine were on the loose side.
 

savarin

Active User
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
1,959
Likes
2,964
#25
Everything is out of the headstock, the cups popped out with a drift with no problems.
The firm one is the roller cage and cup on the spindle, that as tight as #######.
Just thinking out loud here, If the new bearings are installed without the internal tin shields I can remove the gear/speed chart on the front when required and pack more grease into both bearings with my fingers. Thats easier and quicker than drilling and fitting grease nipples.
 

C-Bag

Ned Ludd's bro
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Feb 9, 2017
Messages
505
Likes
343
#26
Mine doesn't have the grease shields, I can see exactly if and how much grease is in there. It's pretty easy to squish some more grease in there. Last time I was in there that's what I did. YMMV.
 

Cadillac

Brass
Registered
Joined
Mar 12, 2018
Messages
513
Likes
543
#27
I would think a properly packed bearing with the proper grease and preload correctly should outlast the operator. You have a good chance of contaminating the bearing by squishing some grease around the washers.
 

rwm

Active User
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Mar 25, 2013
Messages
1,451
Likes
1,658
#28
What's the plan to remove the bearing form the spindle? Stand the spindle in dry ice and heat the bearing with a torch?

Anonymous!
 

Downwindtracker2

Active User
Registered
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
356
Likes
143
#29
This is nerve racking, when I ran into a stuck inner race , I would use a cut wheel on a mini=grinder and cut a slot. Of course not cutting into the shaft. With a block of wood on the back side to soften, and a cold chisel to point load, I'll give it a swat. Bearing metal is brittle and will 9 times out of 10 it will crack at the cut. Since it is brittle, it can shatter, wear safety glasses or shield. You may want to do two 180 degree cuts, but then it gets twice as nerve racking
 

Cadillac

Brass
Registered
Joined
Mar 12, 2018
Messages
513
Likes
543
#30
The bearing is garbage. I would start with supporting the cage and trying pressing the spindle out. See what happens. Cage pops than you deal with the inner race and press off. Or cut off what have you. Delicately either way
 
[6]
[5] [7]
Top