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Sheldon Compound Gib For An 11x36

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Gene1934

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#1
Attempting to do some work on this lathe yesterday, discloses that the compound ways have a rather large amount of play.

Investigating to see if the gibs, which appear to be tapered, could be snugged up found a very limited range of push pull available. Perhaps an eighth of an inch total.

disassembling the adjuster screws I found what appear to be home made gib pushers, with one of them having no projection of the finger to push the end of the gib beyond the position of the screw is tight against the pusher which is bottomed in the hole. And it appears that some of the casting has been broken away, and that the gib itself is at least 1/2" short over all.

So, question is: are these three parts available, or should I try to go ahead and use it since in the long run, it will be removed as I CNC this lathe. CNC can program moves that render the compound into a tool holder platform that wiggles when you don't want it to, its motion capabilities are not needed. I have a big block of cast iron to make its bolt on replacement at some point in the future after I get the motors and new ball screws installed, and can actually run it with LinuxCNC.
 

CraigB1960

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#2
Parts are not readily available, eBay is the best source for used parts. I purchased a carriage/compound a while back for parts off of eBay. If converting to CNC, might just fix it enough to use it.
 

Gene1934

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Parts are not readily available, eBay is the best source for used parts. I purchased a carriage/compound a while back for parts off of eBay. If converting to CNC, might just fix it enough to use it.
Humm, sounds as it I may as well see if I can make the pusher gizmos. OTOH, I have not managed to remove the dial to see if that is how it can be separated since the screw will not back out thru the nut, and zero access to the far end of the nut can be obtained without pushing it fwd, withdrawing the shaft after the handle etc have been removed. As for fixing it up, I have the spindle bearings to zero lash, and I have a ball screw about 25% built and assembled for the crossfeed drive. roller thrust washers for the front shaft of the crossfeed arrived yesterday, along with a much larger set to serve as the bearing the collect drawtube will pull against,

I've about 5 projects going all at the same time, working on this or that as the materials get rounded up. Then I had to let it all lay and get on the rider to see if I could find the place and it puked. That's when I found the engine is so old they don't make the exact spark plug anymore. 12.5 HP B&S, runs good when it runs but that Craftsman 38" rider was new in 1972. Champion has a washered replacement plug where the OEM is a miniature taper seat. I guess its alright, it runs. )

One final Q though, if I have to make a gib, whats the taper per foot normally used in these old coots? A length of .250" x 0.500" A2 ought to be able to be ground to the right shape. I'd have to order it, but heck, the whole world is on back order I guess. 'twouldn't be the first time in my 81 years.

Thanks.
 

CraigB1960

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#4
One final Q though, if I have to make a gib, whats the taper per foot normally used in these old coots? A length of .250" x 0.500" A2 ought to be able to be ground to the right shape. I'd have to order it, but heck, the whole world is on back order I guess. 'twouldn't be the first time in my 81 years.

Thanks.
Gene,
I have no idea on the gib. I will dig through my junk room and pull the compound. Do you have any photos of your compound to make sure we are on the same page?
 

Gene1934

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Gene,
I have no idea on the gib. I will dig through my junk room and pull the compound. Do you have any photos of your compound to make sure we are on the same page?
Not ATM, but if I don't forget it, I have a handy Nikon L-100 under foot here someplace. I take it I can upload the pix file(s) with the button beside the "post reply" and it stays linked to the message? Or I can put it up on my own web page and post the URL. Probably tomorrow afternoon after I get some honeydo's done. Thanks a bunch.
 

CraigB1960

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Or I can put it up on my own web page and post the URL. Probably tomorrow afternoon after I get some honeydo's done. Thanks a bunch.
You can put it on your page and use the image icon (beside the smilie face) to post the URL of the image. It will show up here.
 

CraigB1960

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#8
Link does not open for me.
 

Gene1934

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wa5cab

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#10
OK. That worked. But you just added one more reason to the list of reasons not to do photos or files this way.
 

Gene1934

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OK. That worked. But you just added one more reason to the list of reasons not to do photos or files this way.
You would rather burn up the forum servers bandwidth instead of mine? I get the first 300Gb before my $50/month rate goes up, typical month, me and the web page use 30 of it. If 20 people are interested enough to dl those two pix, its still only 100 megs as the two of them total about 5 megs straight out of the camera. Biggest problem I see is my relatively poor upload bandwidth, so they are slow to load.
 

wa5cab

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#12
Gene,

Although 2.5 MB for a single JPG photo seems unusually high (250 - 500 KB is typical) , the short answer is Yes. Besides avoiding problems with typo's as in this case, it also avoids the unfortunately rather high probability that the URL to the photo(s) or file(s) may sooner or later become unavailable for any of several reasons.
 

CraigB1960

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Gene,

Although 2.5 MB for a single JPG photo seems unusually high (250 - 500 KB is typical) , the short answer is Yes. Besides avoiding problems with typo's as in this case, it also avoids the unfortunately rather high probability that the URL to the photo(s) or file(s) may sooner or later become unavailable for any of several reasons.
Just my 2 cents.

I have several domains that I web host, so I always upload my images to my host, than reference them through the URL (img) command .

Several reasons I do this, but the main one being is that I write on a lot of forums. By referencing my photos by this method, it provides me a convenient method to go back and edit my image(s) anytime I want, reload it to one place, and it will be automatically updated in all the references on the net.

As you point out, there are downsides to this.....but there are downsides to everything in life. The volatility of content on the net is something that we all live with. If information is so important to me, than I copy/paste or print the material into a PDF document for my personal reference or print it out to file away.
 

Gene1934

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Just my 2 cents.

I have several domains that I web host, so I always upload my images to my host, than reference them through the URL (img) command .

Several reasons I do this, but the main one being is that I write on a lot of forums. By referencing my photos by this method, it provides me a convenient method to go back and edit my image(s) anytime I want, reload it to one place, and it will be automatically updated in all the references on the net.

As you point out, there are downsides to this.....but there are downsides to everything in life. The volatility of content on the net is something that we all live with. If information is so important to me, than I copy/paste or print the material into a PDF document for my personal reference or print it out to file away.
Well, at 81, I could fall over yet today, and eventually my widow will have someone, probably one of my boys, come in and shut all this stuff off, and poof! Other than the coco list, subscriber count just north of 500, which depends on my site to have a reasonably freshly built backup copy of the OS as it exists these days, I am not so convinced that my passing will be greatly missed on the innertubes. If you want to see what all is here, just back it up to the gene/ and you'll have a pix of me & the missus staring at you from Easter Sunday 2004. We've both lost some weight we needed to lose, a few more lines hiding behind the beard & its cut a bit more Kenny Rogers style. The missus has COPD, which is worse now than then as there is no way forward that isn't also downhill. I am diabetic, DM-II, and had my 10 minute warning buzzer with a pulmonary embolism a bit over 2 years ago, but the clot buster shot worked so I am still fooling around at my own pace. If I had of known when I was 20 that I would live this long, I would have taken it a heck of a lot easier on my back 60 years ago when I was 10 foot tall and bullet proof. As for the 2.5 megs, straight out of the camera, I should have run them thru the them to the 250k area, but I didn't know how close a look someone might want to take.

My 1934 equ to 2 cents, adjust for inflation. :)

Thanks Craig.
 

wa5cab

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#15
OK. I'm just doing my job and looking out for the convenience of H-M members.
 
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#16
I am looking at the two pix files at:http://localhost:6309/gene/lathe-stf/Sheldon_lathe-pix/
that is on this machine. Since I can't see it at the outside address, the "localhost" part must be replaced by the dns resolved
<http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene/lathe-stf/Sheldon_lathe-pix> So replace the final underscore with a hyphen and it should work. My bad, I need to learn to type. :(
Your link will not open on my computer. I've tried it several ways and it just will not open. I know it's my virus scan/malware stopping me from viewing it, and I refuse to turn it off to be able to view your files.

EDIT; Found his website and managed to get to the Sheldon lathe pics.

http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene/lathe-stf/Sheldon_lathe-pix/

Not my virus scan software, it's the right arrow (>) on the end of the link preventing it from opening. It needed a forward slash (/).

It's all good.

Ken
 
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#17
Looking at your pictures, the gib is definitely way too short. A gib is not too difficult to make, just requires making a couple of fixtures. One fixture for cutting the taper on the gib and a second one for cutting the 30 degree on the sides to create the parallelogram shape to the gib. The original Sheldon gibs were made from 1018 mild steel flat bar. Sheldon may have stress relieve the material for making gibs, but I doubt it. The length of the gib would be about 1-1/2" longer than the bottom half of the slide, where the gib sets. If you like some pictures of a gib I worked on on my Sheldon, I'll be glad to post pictures. The pictures I have of the fixtures show a much larger gib mounted to it that went to my 20" L & S lathe.
 

Gene1934

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Looking at your pictures, the gib is definitely way too short. A gib is not too difficult to make, just requires making a couple of fixtures. One fixture for cutting the taper on the gib and a second one for cutting the 30 degree on the sides to create the parallelogram shape to the gib. The original Sheldon gibs were made from 1018 mild steel flat bar. Sheldon may have stress relieve the material for making gibs, but I doubt it. The length of the gib would be about 1-1/2" longer than the bottom half of the slide, where the gib sets. If you like some pictures of a gib I worked on on my Sheldon, I'll be glad to post pictures. The pictures I have of the fixtures show a much larger gib mounted to it that went to my 20" L & S lathe.
That was my impression, that the one in there was too short. I need to order up some 3/8" A2 round drill rod at some point here to make and extension for the ball screw so it can also, if motor power is off, be turned by hand, and considered adding a 1/4" x 1/2" stick of A2 to the order. What I have done with A2 without any heat treatment has surprised me, both by the ease of machining it with carbide tools, and its ability to absorb a millisecond duration compression shock load of 1000+ lbs in a 1/4x1/8 piece with some potentially weak spots machined in the middle of it.

Closer to on topic, I did get the crossfeed ball nut cage done this afternoon, except for plugging a hole in the side of it with a lexan window, so I am one step closer to being able to put a motor on the back of the carriage it where the taper attachment was. I have shade tree mechaniced a set of compressed felt washers to wipe the swarf off the screw before it can get into the ball cage and make noises like a bag of Orville R's popcorn in the microwave. The lexan window covers the ball return tube. The felts will also serve as an oil reservoir, wiping a thin coat on the screw as it spins in and out. I've an idea of drilling the mounting bolt thru to get oil into it by way of a small oil cap in the top of the bolt head. Grade 8 3/x24 bolt with a 1/16" or less hole thru about 1.125" shouldn't be seriously weakened by that.

As for the right arrow, there was a left arrow in front of the corrected URL <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene/lathe-stf/Sheldon_lathe-pix> here and about 4 posts up. Those <> serve as wrappers for the URL, and if looking at it in a browser, or an email agent, they lock a long link that may even be word-wrapped into one string, so that a click on the string should Just Work(TM).

Thanks Ken for the angle (30 degrees) data, now, does anyone know the taper in thou per foot? I can program that into my milling machines easily enough.
 

CraigB1960

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#19
I cannot tell if the gib is too short. If it was apart, then I could tell. The screw is not the correct one though. Both of the compound gibs I have, have a notch that the screw acts upon.

Edit: Gene, do you have the manual? Not sure if you are a member of the Yahoo Sheldon's group, but they have a file section with manuals.

The taper on the two compound I have are different. The factory made each a custom fit.

Here's the image for my compound (12/13" m series). I have read they are the same as used on the 10" and 11" lathe.

compound.jpg
 
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Gene1934

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#20
I cannot tell if the gib is too short. If it was apart, then I could tell. The screw is not the correct one though. Both of the compound gibs I have, have a notch that the screw acts upon.

Edit: Gene, do you have the manual? Not sure if you are a member of the Yahoo Sheldon's group, but they have a file section with manuals.

The taper on the two compound I have are different. The factory made each a custom fit.

Here's the image for my compound (12/13" m series). I have read they are the same as used on the 10" and 11" lathe.

compound.jpg
That is quite different from what I am looking at here, but it could have been that way once, and someone lost the special gib screws that engaged the notch in the gib with a flange that was made as part of the OEM screw. From your drawing above, the fat end of the gib was the front end (toward the operator). I've put mine back together now but its looking like the gib may have been broken off at the inner end of the notch. It was then converted to a 2 screw arrangement such as is used in all 3 positions in my G0704. Which may explain the broken away part that can be seen in the pix I took. Since I have a big block of cast from a local casting operation that pours and finishes large car hubs for IH I believe, it will be a PIMA to make the solid replacement for it once LinuxCNC is running the rest of it, and I can probably do that riser block about as fast as I can get a new, longer gib made. I haven't taken it apart any farther than what you see as the handle has a wobble like the shaft is bent a few tens of thousandths outside the bearing, which may make it difficult to drive out out to the rear. Its had some sort of shipping damage that hit the handle at some point. In any event I ought to be able to unscrew the drive screw from the nut and withdraw the top of it, but this one seems to have something on the end of the still invisible screw that resembles a cap screw and washer hitting the back face of the nut, so I am assuming I'll have to remove the handle and dial, and drive the screw and top half out of the bearing, part #9 in the drawings above. The markings for angle on the base have been historical for decades, a good light can't find much. Once the motors are calibrated, I can write gcode 10x more accurate anyway. :)

Thanks Craig
 
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#21
Craig,

If you have the original taper attachment, pull the gib screw from the upper slide. That is more than likely the correct screw used on the compound. At least the part number matches up with the number on my gib screw on the my taper attachment. It is a very simple screw to make. Just thought of something, the lower tapered gib might could be a donor gib to the compound. The tapered gib on my compound was on a .180" taper per foot. You can set up and measure the taper on you existing compound slide in your mill. Easy to do and you don't need a long travel indicator. A digital readout helps but not necessary. Ken
 

Gene1934

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Craig,

If you have the original taper attachment, pull the gib screw from the upper slide. That is more than likely the correct screw used on the compound. At least the part number matches up with the number on my gib screw on the my taper attachment. It is a very simple screw to make. Just thought of something, the lower tapered gib might could be a donor gib to the compound. The tapered gib on my compound was on a .180" taper per foot. You can set up and measure the taper on you existing compound slide in your mill. Easy to do and you don't need a long travel indicator. A digital readout helps but not necessary. Ken
Now that's a thought I hadn't had yet, (I must be slipping in my dotage) and since the lower gib in the taper is longer, it could well be a donor. I'll sure check it out, thanks.
 
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