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Sheldon Lathe Identification

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BSchulz

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#1
I recently acquired a Sheldon Lathe and have what i can make out of a model number and serial number (all be it rather beat up and hard to read). I am trying to make a positive identification so that i can get a parts manuel and operations manuel before all the markings on the various name plates are gone.
The Model number seems to be GR72B and the Serial # seems to be GR25920.
I have yet to find any pictures that can help in the identification, but i can include a picture as received.
 

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#2
Welcome to Hobby-Machinist Forum.

I have almost the exact same lathe in my shop that I'm rebuilding. Mine is a "ER" version that has step pulleys to get the various speeds. Yours is the "GR" version that has a four speed transmission driving the headstock. Mine is serial number 25267 that's 653 serial numbers greater than mine. Mine was born in 1960. Yours may be born in 1960 or 1961. GR72B indicates it has the four speed transmission gear motor, has a 72" bed, and the "B" should be a "P" in the model number. And it's a 15" swing lathe. I have a instructions/ parts manual of the "ER" version but does not cover the four speed gear motor on the "GR" version. Rest of the manual is the same between the two lathes. If interested in the manual, I'll be glad to up load it into the "downloads" section for downloading. Ken

Oh, be sure to go over to the Yahoo groups and join both Sheldon Lathe groups for additional information. BTW-My current rebuild is my second one I've done over the years. I'll be glad to help where its needed. As well as other sources for repair parts other than B & K. Ken
 

BSchulz

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Welcome to Hobby-Machinist Forum.

I have almost the exact same lathe in my shop that I'm rebuilding. Mine is a "ER" version that has step pulleys to get the various speeds. Yours is the "GR" version that has a four speed transmission driving the headstock. Mine is serial number 25267 that's 653 serial numbers greater than mine. Mine was born in 1960. Yours may be born in 1960 or 1961. GR72B indicates it has the four speed transmission gear motor, has a 72" bed, and the "B" should be a "P" in the model number. And it's a 15" swing lathe. I have a instructions/ parts manual of the "ER" version but does not cover the four speed gear motor on the "GR" version. Rest of the manual is the same between the two lathes. If interested in the manual, I'll be glad to up load it into the "downloads" section for downloading. Ken

Oh, be sure to go over to the Yahoo groups and join both Sheldon Lathe groups for additional information. BTW-My current rebuild is my second one I've done over the years. I'll be glad to help where its needed. As well as other sources for repair parts other than B & K. Ken
Ken:
Thanks for the quick reply.
Yes i would appreciate the manual if you have it available at least it will cover the compound and headstock. The lathe was in reasonable condition, but needs some TLC. The motor was rewound for 575 volts and i am in the process of having it reqound to 220V 3P with a Rotophase to power it. The heastock, Compound and gearbox are all cleaned up and now need to cleanout the motor and gearbox compatment. yuk. doesnt look like that part has seen a vacuum since it was new........ The compound and ways are in good shape and tollerances seem to be rather well preserved. once i get the stator for the motor back should have a good lathe for the hobby shop and Farm (and of course the neighbors).
Thanks for the tip on Yahoo Groups.
 
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#4
Here is the link to the Operation Manual.

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/reso...s-manual-for-15-precision-sheldon-lathe.3184/

If you ever need drawings to any of the parts in the apron. I have reversed engineered and drawn up every part in the apron. Let me know. Too many to up load here. They are loaded on Sheldon Lathe 2 group on Yahoo if for some reason I'm no longer around.

Ken

BTW-If you haven't serviced the apron, I advise you drop the apron and give it a good cleaning and make repairs where needed.
 

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#5
Welcome to the best site around. I to owned a Sheldon but being younger I sold it to buy a boat. Dumbest thing I ever did. I had tons of tooling the RPC , it had lever collets three chucks , crank variable speed and it was great. Ok I'm kicking my own butt . I don't recognize yours but I bet it will turn out to be a good working machine.
 

BSchulz

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Here is the link to the Operation Manual.

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/reso...s-manual-for-15-precision-sheldon-lathe.3184/

If you ever need drawings to any of the parts in the apron. I have reversed engineered and drawn up every part in the apron. Let me know. Too many to up load here. They are loaded on Sheldon Lathe 2 group on Yahoo if for some reason I'm no longer around.

Ken

BTW-If you haven't serviced the apron, I advise you drop the apron and give it a good cleaning and make repairs where needed.
Thanks great help understanding whats behind the part that has something behind it.......
As soon as i get approval to the Yahoo groups ill try to get to the documents. Any idea what year/month you posted them or is it a number of dates. Just trying to narrow down the search when i can get there.

Thanks
 
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#7
Thanks great help understanding whats behind the part that has something behind it.......
As soon as i get approval to the Yahoo groups ill try to get to the documents. Any idea what year/month you posted them or is it a number of dates. Just trying to narrow down the search when i can get there.

Thanks
Look under the Sheldon Lathe 2 group. And it's listed under "Ken's 13 Sheldon Sebastian Lathe." Both lathes use the same apron.
 

BSchulz

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Look under the Sheldon Lathe 2 group. And it's listed under "Ken's 13 Sheldon Sebastian Lathe." Both lathes use the same apron.
I have just ran into my first proble, with the compound.... Refering to the parts list you previously provided Page 14 and 15.......
I am trying to take apart the upper slide Part # 12 and Part # 19 Swivel. There are 2 adjustment screw for the GIB Part #21. The one on the non handle side is free to turn with little or no resistance, however the one on the handle side has a piece bent over the adjusting screw. It is steel covering about 1/3 of the adjusting screw head. I can move the adjusting screw, but limited by the piece covering part of the screw. It binds in either direction and does not seem to be hindered by this bent over piece, but may be wrong. I assume that the bent over piece is part of the gib appears to be a cast surface.......... Needless to say I can not move the slide. I have removed the 2 set screws #23 and given it several good smacks with a brass hammer to no avail. Before i get to froggy with the hammer I thought iIwould ask someone that has a working slide. I can send a picture if that would help.
PS finally got access to Yahoo groups. Good information. Wish the price list was still in effect.
 
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#9
Post a picture or two. Sounds like someone got the gib jam in there too good.

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#10
I'm out of town right now. I'll try to tune in when I get home tonight.

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#11
Here's a couple pictures of mine without the gib screw installed. It does have a very thin section to it. The gib is steel, so the most you will do is bend it over.
Something you can try, take the gib screw and put it in a bind backing the gib out. Then take a brass bar and give the lower slide item 19 a good blow. If it doesn't move, see if the gib screw will back out some more and give it another blow with the brass bar. It may take a few tries, it should come loose. Make sure to take the feed screw out and I assume you have done this. And if there's room to get the cross feed nut out do that too. At least remove the bolt item 31. Ken
 

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#12
Post a picture or two. Sounds like someone got the gib jam in there too good.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
here are 2 pics of the
Post a picture or two. Sounds like someone got the gib jam in there too good.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
here are both ends of the
Here's a couple pictures of mine without the gib screw installed. It does have a very thin section to it. The gib is steel, so the most you will do is bend it over.
Something you can try, take the gib screw and put it in a bind backing the gib out. Then take a brass bar and give the lower slide item 19 a good blow. If it doesn't move, see if the gib screw will back out some more and give it another blow with the brass bar. It may take a few tries, it should come loose. Make sure to take the feed screw out and I assume you have done this. And if there's room to get the cross feed nut out do that too. At least remove the bolt item 31. Ken
here are pic's of both ends of the gib screw. i gave not removed the screw, but the bolt holding the screw nut is loose. in the second image i was thinking of taking a small roll pin punch and try to tap on the gib to see if i can drive it bakk to loosen it up

IMG_20170516_201957563.jpg IMG_20170516_202032102.jpg
 
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#13
If you take a pin punch and try to drive the gib out, I don't think it will work if the gib is really that tight. The pin punch will mushroom the small end of the gib making it even more difficult to remove. First take the gib screw out on the small end. Take a piece rectangular flat bar material to drive out the gib. May work, may not. Again, put a bind on the gib screw on the big end trying to remove. AS you bang on the small end, put more binding on the gib screw, if it can be tighten more. Last resort, put the compound slide up on a press and attempt to push the gib loose. I've never had to do that, let hope you don't either! Worse comes to worse, I have access to cast iron to make a new compound slide if needed. It's a lot of work making one!
Ken
 

BSchulz

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#14
here are 2 pics of the

here are both ends of the

here are pic's of both ends of the gib screw. i gave not removed the screw, but the bolt holding the screw nut is loose. in the second image i was thinking of taking a small roll pin punch and try to tap on the gib to see if i can drive it bakk to loosen it up

View attachment 233588 View attachment 233589
Took an old chisel and blunted it and ground the sides to fit the full length of the Gib and gave it several good wacks and boom if fell out...... needless to say both gib screws were broke and a faif amount of spalling in the ways. apparently someone knew that the screws were broke and drive in the gib so it wouldnt move. got the adjusting side screw removed now have to work on the locking side. Have an old atlas lathe that needs much tlc but was able to make 2 new gib screws..... Should be good to go further into the compound now......
 

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#15
What a shame! for some one to do that to a lathe! They should be shot at sundown for doing that!
Glad you got it apart. Funny, I'm in the process of putting my compound back together, too. Just like yours. I'm missing a gib screw, too! Not sure if I will make another or leave it as is for now. I generally leave the gib snug to tight so the compound doesn't move around when cutting. I'm fixing to add some ball oilers to the top so the slide can be oiled as well as the screw and nut. Ken
 

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Took an old chisel and blunted it and ground the sides to fit the full length of the Gib and gave it several good wacks and boom if fell out...... needless to say both gib screws were broke and a faif amount of spalling in the ways. apparently someone knew that the screws were broke and drive in the gib so it wouldnt move. got the adjusting side screw removed now have to work on the locking side. Have an old atlas lathe that needs much tlc but was able to make 2 new gib screws..... Should be good to go further into the compound now......
i used a 5/16" X1-1/2" set screw. turned down and rethreaded it for 1/4-20 then cut a straight slot in the top for using a screwdriver to adjust. i had to cut the height of the screw head down so there was very little hex left so it dowsn't seem to effect the ability to tighten/loosen the screw. Also have another question. i have a fair amount of slack in the adjusting screw. there is a retainer in the part of the screw that seems to hold the screw in place, but it also seems to contribute to the amount that the screw can move in either direction before it actually moves the compound. does that ring come off and release the screw and or can it be tightened so that there is not so much slack....... about 3/16" I have tapped and pried at itn but dow't want to damage the area or screw. I can not see a split line between the ring and screw. there may be one there, but it is in a tough spot to see.
 
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#17
Here are a couple of pictures of the parts that make up the feed screw assy.

The large collar is threaded on to the compound top. There is a shallow hole for a spanner wrench if you have on. I usually take a right size punch and put in the hole to get the leverage to break it loose. They are not generally tight but could be. Channel locks work too, but will leave jaw marks you have to deal with.
 

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Wow Thanks Never in a million years would i have thought that the piece that holds the screw all in one place was threaded..... i did not see the split line until i used a scratch awl to find it. thanks.

next i am moving on to the Apron. if i read the prints correctly there are 3 allen head bolts that hold the apron to the compound. My question is How does the lead screw get disengaged from the screw. do you have to remove the clutch and jaws first?
 
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Wow Thanks Never in a million years would i have thought that the piece that holds the screw all in one place was threaded..... i did not see the split line until i used a scratch awl to find it. thanks.

next i am moving on to the Apron. if i read the prints correctly there are 3 allen head bolts that hold the apron to the compound. My question is How does the lead screw get disengaged from the screw. do you have to remove the clutch and jaws first?
Yes, there's three cap screws holding the apron onto the saddle.

To get the leadscrew off. Look at where it connects to the QCGB. There is a tapered pin holding the leadscrew on. Try to figure out which end is the smaller end and attempt to drive it out. A suggestion is to drill into the pin about 1/8", this will give you a place for your punch to seat in and help driving it out. It may or maynot come loose. Both of my lathes, I've had to drill them out most of the way out. And I'm not very good to keeping the drill bit in perfect alignment and it always goes off center. Once you get the pin out, pry the leadscrew off of the QCGB. The leadscrew pulls out from the tail end of the bed. Once its out of the way, then you can pull the apron. The apron is heavy, so block it up a little so you can get control of it when it lets go. Then the fun begins removing the gears and stuff from the apron. And I'm sure your apron is nasty like mine was, maybe in a different way. There's a couple of gears that will give you havic getting them out. Don't beat on anything too much! Remember, If you break something, this stuff is untainable at any reasonable price! Ken
 
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BSchulz

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#20
Here is the link to the Operation Manual.

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/reso...s-manual-for-15-precision-sheldon-lathe.3184/

If you ever need drawings to any of the parts in the apron. I have reversed engineered and drawn up every part in the apron. Let me know. Too many to up load here. They are loaded on Sheldon Lathe 2 group on Yahoo if for some reason I'm no longer around.

Ken

BTW-If you haven't serviced the apron, I advise you drop the apron and give it a good cleaning and make repairs where needed.
I dropped it and you are right. There was supposed to be oil in that gearbox??????. I don't think sludge and the traverse gear running in that sludge pocket qualifies as oil. I had to remove the lead screw with the apron as I am unable to get it out of the gearbox. I am heeding your advice and not trying to force something I don't know what's holding it in there. When I removed the split pin from the lead screw, the screw came out from the drive easily but when I tried to remove it from the apron it is stuck and I can not move it in either direction. It is not bound and freely moves back and forth about 1-1/2" but will not come completely out of the center (worm gear i think). I have attached a couple of pictures. I removed the set screws that are on either side of the opening and believe there is something holding the worm gear and or something that is stopping the screw from coming out.
Apron 1.jpg Apron 2.jpg Apron 3.jpg
Also in the 3rd picture the rack pinion is missing 3 teath. Fortunately not all in a row but it does/should present a problem when the power feed is engauged as it will probably bind and or strip out something else. I believe it is part #22 10756. Any idea where I might find the gear and shaft. Also it appears that most of the brass bearings have a lot of end play and will need to be replaced..... could be made if I had a functional lathe....... but oh ya I removed the apron....... Any suggestions where/if these parts are available?
 
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#21
Yuck!! YUCK!!!

First thing, lets get the leadscrew out. Bump it back the other direction to expose the end of it. Take a flat file and remove any burrs, positive metal from the OD of the leadscrew up to the threads. Next clean out the keyway to remove any crud. After doing that, it should pull out.
Okay, next go review my thread on my 15" rebuild to see some of the repairs I've made to the apron including the rack pinion gear. Also locate the drawing for the rack pinion gear on the Sheldon 2 Group under "My 13" Sheldon Sebastian Lathe". Oh, may as well attached it here too. I also included the drawing for the Worm and end bushings.
Got to run will get back with you in a bit on how the get all of that apart. Ken
 

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#22
Ok, on removing the Rack Gear item 22 in the Sheldon manual, first thing, find the 10-32 set screw in the bull gear, item 15. Make sure there are not two in the hole. Once this is done, take a brass drift or punch and drive the shaft out from the front of the apron. Take your time and don't get too carried away driving it out. It should come out without too much force. Once that is done move down to item 20, handwheel pinion, (Sheldon has a typing error in their parts list, they call it a rack pinion, which it is not) remove the set screw item 13, then drive that shaft out from the front. Once that is done, be time to look at your options here for the rack pinion. The bronze bushings I bought off of EvilBay. Their sizes are 5/8" ID x 7/8" OD. One is 7/8 long and the other is around 1-1/4" long that I bought. These are a little longer than the one's that get pulled and I did that on purpose. If you'll notice in my picture posted, I put a longer bushing in front of the apron and let it stick out about 3/8". This gives the shaft a little more support and bearing for the bull gear. I did likewise for the bushing on the backside too. Making these repairs is going to be difficult without access to at least another lathe.
 

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BSchulz

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#23
Wow got everything out of the. gearbox except the worm screw and related bushings. I'm not sure how to remove it other than finding a way to drive it out one side or the other thus removing the bushing and gear, but wanted to ask if there is a better way. The bushing set screws have been removed, just don't want to damage anything. The worm screw outside threads are in pretty good shape, but the inside key is all but gone. don't think it is replaceable, so will have to find one. All other gears are in really good shape considering what was in the gearbox....... I have not taken any parts off the clutch assemblies, as I wanted to check if there are any secrets there... for their disassembly.
I also have a question on the rack pinion. Can the one I have have the gear machined off and install the gear on the old shaft? Thought that might be a bit easier than having to make a new shaft. Old shaft is not worn very much, just the bushings
Also is the worm gear available to purchase from someone? If so where might I find one?
In initial looking at some of the parts the threads on Part # 27 Half nut are quite worn. Might work, but I would say that about 60% of the teath are gone. Same question as the worm gear are they available?
Couple of Pics with initial cleaning of gearbox. all the rest of the parts need cleaning upon final dissassembly.

PS I have tried just about every combination of "My 13 Sheldon Sebastian Lathe" on Yahoo Groups 2 and can only find 3 prints of the parts. any suggestions about how i'm missing it?

Apron Gearbox - Empty - 02.jpg Apron Gearbox - Empty - 03.jpg Apron Left Clutch  Assembly.jpg Apron Right Clutch Assembly.jpg Apron Worm Gear.jpg
 
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#24
The apron casting cleaned up pretty nice. As removing the worm and bushings, make sure the setscrews are out, which I believe you have already done so. Take a drift, about 1-1/2" OD and drive out the bushing, going from one end. Doesn't matter which end. Once the first bushing is out, remove the worm. Next drive the second bushing in some more until it's drops out to the inside.

Ok, as for finding a new worm gear, I have not found one yet without going to B & K and buying it from them. I suspect, it'll cost you as much as you paid for the lathe when you bought it. I'm guessing around $800-1100 for the worm. Not including the bushings, which I would guess at $100 apiece. Now, what you could do is broach a shallow keyway in the bore of the existing worm and either silver solder a new key in place or pin one in place. I've been lucky not to repared one in my past. I have done this on other lathes in my past that I repaired. I notice the worm is not centered in the middle of the housing when assembled in your picture. When it goes back together, end play should be around .010-.025" and in the center. Might keep that in mind for later. I would encourage getting a hold of B & K and see what they can do for you on this as well as for the rack pinion too.

Going back to the rack pinion, You can turn down the existing gear off and press fit the new gear on. I find it easier to make a new shaft, but doing this, requires a mill to cut the new keyways.
 
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#25
I attached the drawings for the worm and rack gear in post #21. If you need drawings for any of the other parts in the apron, let me know, I'll be glad to provide them.

The clutches for the carriage and cross feed looked to be in good shape. Unless, there is pieces of the wavey springs dropping out, I would leave them alone. If you insists to take them apart, the is a certain sequence of disassembly. On the backe end of the clutch assembly, there is a round threaded nut that is PINNED in place by a very small roll pin. It is very easy to miss. Did this twice! and really messed up some things. Remove the solid rod that rides in the ID of the shaft. That shaft is a anti engagement mechanism that keeps you from engaging the half nuts and feed clutches at the same time. So, going back together, make sure they get re-installed. Once removed, take a small drive punch and drive the roll pin into the ID of the shaft. Ther is only one of these pins per shaft. Once removed, back off the nut, right hand threads, the nuts are a slight interference fit too. Once the nut is off, the rest of the clutch can be taken apart.

As for the half nuts, See what a new set is going to cost you. It may be your only way of fixing the old. I'll attach the half nut drawing for reference.

Ken
 

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#26
I attached the drawings for the worm and rack gear in post #21. If you need drawings for any of the other parts in the apron, let me know, I'll be glad to provide them.

The clutches for the carriage and cross feed looked to be in good shape. Unless, there is pieces of the wavey springs dropping out, I would leave them alone. If you insists to take them apart, the is a certain sequence of disassembly. On the backe end of the clutch assembly, there is a round threaded nut that is PINNED in place by a very small roll pin. It is very easy to miss. Did this twice! and really messed up some things. Remove the solid rod that rides in the ID of the shaft. That shaft is a anti engagement mechanism that keeps you from engaging the half nuts and feed clutches at the same time. So, going back together, make sure they get re-installed. Once removed, take a small drive punch and drive the roll pin into the ID of the shaft. Ther is only one of these pins per shaft. Once removed, back off the nut, right hand threads, the nuts are a slight interference fit too. Once the nut is off, the rest of the clutch can be taken apart.

As for the half nuts, See what a new set is going to cost you. It may be your only way of fixing the old. I'll attach the half nut drawing for reference.

Ken
Thanks again for the great information. Do you have any more information on B & K as a google search is filled with numerous B & K that have nothing to do with Lathe Parts and those that do are selling complete lathe's
Anything from Burger King to Pharmacuticals......
I think based on what you indicated previously that I will leave the clutches alone, just clean them up as they were functional before I removed them.
With ref to the worm gear spacing it appears that the bushings are out some on each end about .250 or more. not sure if they were that way before I removed the set screws..... they may have pushed out some when I was trying to remove the drive shaft. I will check that out later today as I have a lot of parts to clean up and had to change the parts cleaner. I ran the auto parts shop out of parts cleaner and need to get some more so back to town.
Again thanks for the prints. I am still only able to see about 6 prints on Yahoo groups. the screen shot below is the only hits i get. This is with Sheldon Sebastain Lathe as a search then ken's 13 Yahoo Groups Screen.jpg
 

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#28
One of the problems with both the Yahoo and the eBay search engines is that they ignore punctuation symbols. So B&K gets searched as B K. It'll find B&K but it'll also find things like

SONY A1118098B K BOARD MODEL# KDL-V32XBR1

WRT Yahoo FILES, running the search engine, unlike most others, requires pressing the Enter key after entering your search string. In most search engines, there is a SEARCH button to the right of the entry field. And you can either click there with the mouse or press the ENTER key. For whatever reasons, my muscle memory wants to do the former. Which gets you into all sorts of confusion on Yahoo as there is no SEARCH button to click on..If I absent mindedly click on the button to the right, it searches all GROUPS.

The other problem that I have found on Yahoo is that, with only two exceptions that I know of, none of the Moderators or Owners there make any effort to enforce any logical file naming standards and there is no organization of files into any symblance of order. They are all just left wherever and however the originator made them.
 
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#29
You found the correct address. Sorry, I should have added a link for their contact information.
 

BSchulz

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#30
I attached the drawings for the worm and rack gear in post #21. If you need drawings for any of the other parts in the apron, let me know, I'll be glad to provide them.

The clutches for the carriage and cross feed looked to be in good shape. Unless, there is pieces of the wavey springs dropping out, I would leave them alone. If you insists to take them apart, the is a certain sequence of disassembly. On the backe end of the clutch assembly, there is a round threaded nut that is PINNED in place by a very small roll pin. It is very easy to miss. Did this twice! and really messed up some things. Remove the solid rod that rides in the ID of the shaft. That shaft is a anti engagement mechanism that keeps you from engaging the half nuts and feed clutches at the same time. So, going back together, make sure they get re-installed. Once removed, take a small drive punch and drive the roll pin into the ID of the shaft. Ther is only one of these pins per shaft. Once removed, back off the nut, right hand threads, the nuts are a slight interference fit too. Once the nut is off, the rest of the clutch can be taken apart.

As for the half nuts, See what a new set is going to cost you. It may be your only way of fixing the old. I'll attach the half nut drawing for reference.

Ken
ok is there some secret to getting out the roll pin on the cross feed clutch. i have tried damn near everything. broken several drills. bent several drifts and still have done little to remove the roll pin. Stopped today as frustration is setting in. thought of heating it a bit, but ........
 
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