Should I buy a mill or lathe as my first piece of equipment?

[gearhead]

I do kinetic metal art work, and I am finding that I really need the ability to turn custom parts for one reason or another. I deal with gears and sprockets often, and would like to combine mismatched or odd types of these pieces together to actually function. In the short time I have started working with these sorts of things I have already had the desire to turn my own bushings, notch a shaft for a C-clip, bore out an ID in a gear/sprocket, turn down a shaft, put a keyway in a sprocket or gear, add a flat to a shaft, make a place into which I can press-fit a bearing or bushing, and on and on. I also would like to learn how to make my own gears at home. In addition, I would like to be able to create mounts to which I can affix all these pieces of machinery.

Now, with all this in mind, should I be looking for a lathe or a mill as my first home shop machine? My shop is in my basement, so headroom is a concern. It's also impossible to get something large down the stairs, though I suppose I could move things out to the garage if I found a piece of equipment that was worth finding more storage space for the Chevelle that's currently in it.

Any thoughts from those more experienced would be greatly appreciated. Also, if you know of some reading material or videos that might help me get a better idea of what I want, that would be great. I love doing research, and, though I'd love to have a machine in my shop in the next 24 hours, I hate to spend money on a whim, because regret seems to hang around forever after the money is gone. Of course, I don't have much money. As an example, I was looking at an Atlas 6" lathe on Craigs List for $650 as something that might be affordable for me. Would love a Bridgeport, but unless a miracle occurs, well, that's very likely not going to happen, and I'm okay with that.

I have been wanting to get into home machining for quite some time now, and I'm very happy to have found this community. I'd appreciate any help you all could send my way.

Tom

 

[goldenchips2]

IMHO...
A nice used lathe that will swing what you need to swing.
You can mill on a lathe...just takes away time on the setups...
Its easier to mill on a mill, just depends on "time VS money"
you can also do some shaping ( keyways in gears )on the lathe when you have the right setups..
There is a ton of stuff on the net about how to do all of this.
Home Shop Machinist and Projects in Metal magazines are geared to the home shop guys who mave to make do with much less than your average machine shop business...

Good luck

 

[gearhead]

Thanks for the thoughts. Yes, I have seen that the Atlas/Craftsman lathes had a mill head attachment and watched a video or two using them. True that setup time is involved when using a machine for a purpose slightly (or very) different from its original intended one. Wish I had money to buy both purpose-built machines at once. I will need to look at those magazines. Man, so much to learn!hew:

 

[Chazz]

I agree, you can do a lot more with a lathe than a mill vis a vie getting started. There are Milling attachments you can get for a lathe but I have never seen a lathe attachment for a mill.

Cheers,
Chazz

 

[British Steel]

I agree, you can do a lot more with a lathe than a mill vis a vie getting started. There are Milling attachments you can get for a lathe but I have never seen a lathe attachment for a mill.

Cheers,
Chazz

Yep, a lathe is a better first machine, and you can do pretty much everything you'd want with adaptors and ingenuity - including gear cutting, which was on your list

I *have* seen a big mill with an arbor modified to take a lathe chuck, it had a tool mounted on a huge block bolted to the table to give depth-of-cut, the knee was used for the "carriage" axis - quite impressive as it could swing a 36" flywheel... IF you could hold it well enough!

Dave H. (the other one)

 

[goldenchips2]

That must have been a really big mill !
Any pics of that?
could not see that on a BP.

 

[gearhead]

Sounds like a lathe is what I should be looking into. As far as "what it can swing," I assume you guys mean "How big a piece of metal you can hang on it."

What should I take into consideration as far as sizing for the machine? I have seen some larger lathes that might be in my price range, but I don't know what is different about them other than their overall length.

Has anyone had experience with the smaller lathes like the Atlas 6" I mentioned? Is this a good starting point for me as far as getting my feet wet and figuring out what I might want further down the road?

 

[pdentrem]

As for the lathe I would look a bit higher than the Atlas 6". They are good lathes but light duty and limiting as well. I would look more towards 9x20 size, maybe a 10x22 that Griizzly sells, around 1k new but found on used market for less than that. Above that there are 11x26 etc but price moves up as well.

I had an Atlas 10" for near 20 yrs and I found even it would limit me on certain jobs. I have moved up to a 1440 but this is more than you are likely to need. Just my thoughts.

 

[British Steel]

Hi Gearhead,

"what it can swing" - the size varies, there are lathes with and without bed gaps (a removable section of the bed at the headstock / chuck end) to allow you to machine large-diameter work, but usully the gap only allows a few inches length - think brake discs, flywheels, bolted to a faceplate (think a big disc with slots to bolt things to).

The swing over the bed is the largest diameter you can physically fit on the machine, but it can be deceptive - the lathe carriage steals an inch or more off the *radius* if the work has to pass over it - for example, my lathe can swing 13" over the bed, but only around 7" diameter over the carriage (for reasons too tedious to go into...) so the maximum long shaft I could turn is about 7" diameter, and although I can machine the face of a 13" disc it proves difficult (without using oddly-shaped cranked tools) to machine the outside diameter.

The other main measurement is the between-centres length of the lathe - *not* the length of the bed, which as stated by a lot of USA manufacturers and sellers includes the length taken up by the headstock, tailstock and chuck. The between-centres length is the absolute maximum length of the workpiece you're machining - e.g. for a 24" shaft you'd need probably 32" between centres to allow for the chuck, the tailstock centre (which holds the far end on centre) etc. - the "bed length" would probably need to be about 72" once you consider the headstock and tailstock!

As far as size to choose...

What do you want to machine? if you're making 1/72nd scale models, something tiny will do, if you're going to be making parts for a custom car or bike (or truck?) you'll want something "large" - I'm into motorbikes and trikes, my machine's 13" swing (7" over the carriage) by 28" between centres, and it's barely big enough some times, but the biggest I can fit in my shed! What size parts do you want to make for your sculptures?

A good rule is "you can always do small work on a big lathe, but you can't do big work on a small lathe", so a good rule is to get the biggest you can physically accommodate

Essentials to make it usable are:
3-jaw self-centring chuck (not the most accurate, but good enough for quick jobs with round or hex stock);
4-jaw independent chuck (lets you set work precisely on centre or at a precise offset for cutting eccentrics etc.);
Tailstock drill chuck (for drilling on the centre axis);
Tailstock centre (to support and located the far end of the work - ball-bearing centres are nice to have, but plain hardened steel works fine with som lube on it);
Fixed and travelling steadies to suport long (and flexible) work while machining.

Things to look for that make it more enjoyable (easier) to use are:
Power feeds -(carriage and cross-slide are moved under motor power to give a better, more consistent finish);
Quick-change gearbox for threading and power feeds (way quicker than messing around with change-gears, but adds a bit to the expected price);
Camlock (D1-something) or taper (L-something) spindle to chuck fitting (rather than a screw-on chuck that a) takes a bit of hassle when changing chucks and b) can unscrew in a crash-stop or running in reverse (eek!) - again, adds to the price!)

You'll find that once you have the lathe, you'll spend a fair amount on tooling , so if your choice comes with a good range all the better!

Just my ha'pennorth,
Dave H.

 

[randyjaco]

Tom,
The prevailing view is a lathe. I too started with a lathe. But the reality is that I USE the mill much more often than the lathe. Eventually you will probably need both 8^)

Randy