Should I buy a Shaper?

drom68

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I enjoy working with older machinery. I don't have a specific need for a shaper nor have I ever used one. They just look like a machine to have so I can watch it do its magic.

The purchase of a shaper would be because I want one.... or at least I think I want one. :dunno:

I have the space, a few extra dollars, and the desire to use one. What i don't have is a good reason to get one.

So, I would appreciate any comments on having or not having a shaper. I have read many post, not many disappointed shaper owners out there. But, I see them for sale all the time and they seem to go quick. Owners want to clear space, never use it, want to purchase something else, bought it but it sat for years, etc....

I don't have a specific shaper in mind and not in any hurry to get one.

Thanks in advance.
 
My shaper was bought to do square-ish sort of work that my lathe can't, I can't justify buying a mill and don't really need one now as I'm not in a hurry..

I just wanted one and one came along, I haven't been bored since, putting a lump of old rusty old metal in it and watch in become new again is one of my favorite things.....

Bernard
 
Like you I don't really NEED a shaper, but I might buy one if the right deal came along and I had a few extra bucks in my pocket. There is a certain cool factor about them, and it's fun to watch them work.
 
I have been making metal chips for about 45 years now. And during all that time have had the opportunity to buy several shapers at or near scrap prices. And I honestly can’t ever remember saying “I should have bought that shaper”. I have a BP and it does it all for me. It even has a shaper/slotting attachment that is very similar in theory. And I have not used that either! I have stroked the quill on those jobs to suffice. Being careful not to overwork the quill and all. I just think about the involvement with swinging the head around and all the other set-up stuff and just stroke the quill instead. Most of us have real estate issues in the home shop. Buying something that takes up floor space better have a need and get used…Good Luck.
 
I dont see any reason a man "needs" a tool to buy one. It aint no different then buying a old gas pump. crapers, power hacks, these inda tools are just cool as all get out even if just sitting.

That being said, I dont spend large chunks of change on nick nacks if there are things I could really use. And that list is way to long to be buying shapers for me.
 
What a silly question, of course you should buy a shaper. You want one, don't you? :biggrin:

Sorry, this is the wrong bunch to ask that question to. The "sickness" runs rampant here. :eek: :thumbzup:

-Ron
 
There's an old saying....You can make anything with a shaper, except money. That's why most of the commercial concerns have gotten away from them and they end up scrapped or on the secondary market. But as a hobbyist, money isn't what it's for anyway. They can do some tricky work that is difficult to do otherwise, and also they can do complicated work that is child's play on a mill. It's rarely a legitimate need, but they can be quite handy to have. Mine sits more than it gets used, for sure.....but I sure am glad I have it when I need it. But then, I have the room and often enough the need. I do make money with mine.

I say get it.
 
I make money with mine too, and I have a pair of them. Both 7" machines, a Logan floor model and a South Bend bench top. Each has things it's better at doing. The Logan was cheap, the Sb was a gift from a departed WW2 vet. And no ,neither is for sale........
 
I have shapers, and I use them. I also have a milling machine that I use. In my opinion, here are the advantages/disadvantages of shapers:

Advantage: You can buy ones in the 12 and larger range cheap, and the larger end of that range can remove metal at a high rate, higher than a BP or it's clone.

Advantage: They use a cheap tool that is easy to sharpen to remove that metal. You can do angles, including dovetails, fairly easily with a cheap tool on a shaper.

Advantage: If you add some switches to the crossrail to shut it down at the end of the cut, you don't have to babysit it. I havn't done this to mine yet, but it is something I plan to do. It's one of the advantages of a CNC machine, you can set it doing a job, then go work on something else.

Advantage: You can do internal keyways/splines, including blind splines (you do need to cut a chip relief). This is a capability that I most hear people needing shapers for now. For very small quantities making a broach is too much trouble. It's only worthwhile to the repair shop or the hobbyist, for production this would be done with a wire EDM or a broach.

Advantage: They are cool.

Disadvantage: Small ones are expensive. I know you guys on the east coast can probably still pick up and Atlas 7B in great shape for 300 bucks, but the same example out here will cost you a grand.

Disadvantage: They are a 2D tool. Think of a linear version of a lathe. You can't produce a pocket with a shaper alone. They are good at things like flat surfaces, slots, dovetails, gears, splines etc. I wouldn't rely only on a shaper for my shop, and I wouldn't get one before a milling machine unless the deal was too good to pass up.

Disadvantage: The big ones take up a lot of space. That ram has to have room behind the machine, unless you plan to cut a hole in the wall.

Disadvantage: They can be quite heavy. Depending on when they were made, a 16" shaper can range from ~1500 to around 4000 lbs. Generaly speaking, the newer they are, the heavier they tend to be. A 24" Cincinatti HD will tip the scales around 7000 lbs, but I consider that to be out of the league of all but the most hardcore hobby machinsts.

Disadvantage: There are a lot of things that need to be done to set them up, compared to a milling machine. You have to set the stroke, then the tool position, the toolhead setover, the toolhead angle and the autofeed. Depending on how old it is, you will probably have to oil about a thousand oil holes, or a few less if it is a newer machine. This may or may not be a disadvantage, depending on how you look at your shop time.

I use mine, not as much as the lathe or mill, but but they do get use. It all comes down to whether you want one or not. They seem to be an ideal machine for the home shop guy, since they can generaly be had cheap, and use cheap, easy to sharpen tooling. It all depends on if you have the space and want one. They seem even better every time a destroy a $50 carbide end mill in my CNC machine.

As an aside, if you do a bit of searching on the internet you will find they still make new shapers in India and China. From what I understand, they are used by repair shops and small job shops in third world and developing countries because the tools are so cheap, and can be easily sharpened with a simple bench grinder. Labor is cheaper there, so the longer set up time and (possibly) longer run time don't make as much difference.

Also, there is a bit of a misconception that they are slow, mainly due to only cutting for ~ 2/3 of the stroke, but a 16" shaper should be able to match the metal removal rate of a milling machine that is typicaly found in the home shop, namely the BP or one of it's clones. I saw a picture of a large one (32" Rockford, I believe) taking a 2" deep cut with a .060 feed in mild steel, the chips were curled strips of sheet metal. I'm sure they were blue, but the picture was in black and white. Ok, enough for today.
 
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