Should I concider a Combo Lathe Mill machines or separate machines; and other stuff.

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CDarby67

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Hello all,
I am certain that this trhead has been posted before, I have not been able to find a similar question/thread that is recent.

I am new to the hobby. I just finished learning how to do some advanced basic skills - threading, etc... My maker shop is closing it's doors and I am concidering purchasing a new lathe and mill or a combo. Elsewhere on the forum I have gleaned that Precision Mathews makes a great tool. I often see repeatative warnings to stay away from the chinese manufactured tools. Are all of Percision Mathews tools made somewhere other than China?

I see Smithy machines have a very well advertised combo mill/lathe. I do not see many "Pro" Smithy threads or suggestions. Why is this?
I would love to have a full sized engine athe and a 2 ton mill but that is just not possible regrding space of finances. I do not want to spend $1500-2000 on a enrty level machine and regret that I short changed myself. $5000 is a stretch but I believe that is what I will need to spend to get what I want. The combo tool is attractive because it seems that for a lower price I get a machine that will do what I need for my hobby. I am making aluminium toys (lightsabers) that are T6061 and rarely exceed 16" in length. I do need to be able to do threading, compund cuts, and radial work on a rotary table, I picked up a used 8" rotary table. I am searching for a tail stock to use the table on a mill.

I have a small work shed 12x16 and plan to house the tools and set up a small workshop. The shed is not insulated, am I asking for trouble with rust related to humidity and exposure to the flux of outdoor weather?

Any help, guidance, and suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Clint
 
Everyone's responses will be personal opinions, just remember that.

There is nothing wrong with Chineese machines. They make parts just like other machines and are affordable. You sacrifice some quality in favor of price. An american machine will be better, but they are often old and worn and are a project themselves. If you want nice machines, buy old american iron. If you want a tool quickly to make parts of good quality, Chineese won't let you down. Precision Matthews is made overseas, but are higher quality than many other suppliers (for a little extra $). Lots of people here buy them and are very happy.

I would avoid a 3 in 1 combo machine. It will not do anything as well as a dedicated machine. Plus, do you want to tear down your milling setup everytime you need to make a little washer on the lathe? I personally vote a strong NO here.

Expect to double the cost of your machine purchase with tooling. I've found this to be true even when working hard to avoid it. Don't worry about buying a whole shop at once. Get the bare minimum and you will collect more over time as your needs and finances justify.

Consider insulating or heating the shed. If not, prepare to spend a lot of time "winterizing" your equipment after each use. MD gets wet and cold and you don't want your expensive tools rusting immediately.

My idea of a good size hobby machine is in the 1000lb range. That's roughly a 12x36 lathe and a large benchtop mill. I've found this has met 99% of my needs with a little room to grow into. It is also small enough to still be moved with shop equipment (engine hoist) when needed.

Just my thoughts,

Mike
 
I would lean towards separate machines. The Smithy machines are not that good, and personally I don't think a combo is a good idea either. These machines are meant to do a certain job, and if you put them all together (in my opinion) they're lacking something somewhere. The other downside to a combo is they're relatively small. I started out with bench top grizzly machines and instantly regretted it. They could barely withstand taking small cuts on any material, and I also soon realized the capacity they could do was much smaller than I would like. There are some great old machines that are small enough (South Bend lathes, small Atlas milling machines) as well as the newer Chinese stuff. For a hobbyist either would work fine.
 
I was in your place four years ago. The images of the 3 in 1 machines looked like trouble, no room to do anything and having to extend quill or lathe tool. just didn't appeal to me. I bought a MK2 Atlas lathe and one of PM's small mills, PM25, and have been content, though I'm soon upgrading to one of PM's 10-22 lathes.

Edit: Correct Typo.
 
Hey Darby, I live in Arnold near the Community College. Let me know if you need help with anything. I have a 12x36 Craftsman lathe, a bench top Pratt & Whitney horizontal mill and a Craftsman drill press. All good quality vintage machines.
 
macardoso said:
Expect to double the cost of your machine purchase with tooling.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why this statement pops up on every new machine thread. Sure, it's easily done but for a beginner just starting out what do you really need? When I upgraded my lathe the only tooling I bought was a QCTP (a luxury), an OD turning tool, a boring bar, a parting tool and I already had a set of digital calipers. The lot set me back less than 10% of the value of the machine. Sure, every now and then something would come up and I'd tool up appropriately so a few years down the line that statement may be true.

I hope I don't come across as argumentative and this is in no way meant to be a dig at you or anyone who has said this previously, I'm just concerned that beginners just getting into the hobby are put off at the thought of buying a machine because of hidden costs. Like most hobbies, this one can be expensive but it doesn't have to be.

My advise would be that if you are just starting out then put everything you can afford into the machine and buy just the bare minimum tooling to get you going - you can make a ton of great parts this way. Probably more so than if you buy a lesser quality machine and all the accessories under the sun, half of which will sit in a tool box for the first year or two and eventually be upgraded to better quality tooling anyway.

As for the OP's original question, I'd agree with what has been said above. I did briefly consider one when i bought my lathe but after viewing one in a showroom decided against it - the whole machine just felt more cluttered. For what I was doing at the time a pillar drill was suitable so I bought one to compliment the lathe. If I were to buy a mill and didn't have the space I'd go for a bench top one, as large as I could accommodate. I do have a milling table for my cross slide but to be honest it's a bit of a faff to use so I try to avoid it where possible.
 
I guess I look at it this way.......if space and or cash is the limiting factor then a combo machine may very well be your best option but its all based on your own personal needs and abilities and what you are expecting fron the machines!

For the most part a combo machine is capable of doing many jobs just as well as separate units are however how effectively and efficiently that process is accomplished and how patient you are seem to be the questionable aspect here and it is very much an opinionated question.

So my suggestion would be for you to literally sit and write a "pro/con" sorta list by asking these type of questions; what type of work do i need to accomplish presently or what i may possibly like to do in the future? How accurate do the finished pieces need to be? How many pieces will need to be produced in what sorta time frames? Do I have the needed shop space for seperate or bigger machine?

My personal advice would be to buy the biggest machine's you can fit in your shop that you can afford to tool up (buying the machine is the cheap part!) And if that should be a combo unit then so be it! However if it were a floor space issue i would most definitely buy separate "bench sized mill and lathe before a combo!

I see a combo unit as a"Jack of All Trades but Master Of NONE" affair but if you learn to work within your means and tool limits you can master the tools use. Ive seen some very very impressive work produced on thise combo units but to be completely honest, .....if money and space were not a factor i would without hesitation buy separate machines.

Yeah I know, doesn't exactly answer your question but i still hope it helps somewhat!
Anyway Good Luck with your decision .
 
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Clint , forget the 3 in 1 machines , there are plenty of nice lathes and mills in the area . Some are great deals , some are not . Know what you're going after and be ready to pounce when they become available . Most likely this spring , I'll be picking up a Jet lathe and some sort of those little mills along with the whole shop . If I decide to go bigger , these are going to go . There are pics on here somewhere of this equipment . Keep your eyes open . Ask around , go to yard sales ,etc . Being this was a huge industrial town some time back , the machines are still buried in garages , basements etc .

I drug a SB heavy 10 10L 10 R something home last week with the intentions of restoring it . Most likely the first warm day in March it'll be on CL . It requires some work as all USA old iron does . But it's here , you're welcome to take a look at it . I'll need my garage space that time of year ! :)
 
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Staying away from the combo machines is good advice, unless someone is practically giving one away.
And tooling does cost if you had to buy everything, like drill bits and such. You may have some tooling already.
Get a good inexpensive 8" caliper, you'll use it a lot.
mark
 
SamI said:
Sure, it's easily done but for a beginner just starting out what do you really need?
Click to expand...

I totally don't interpret your statement as argumentative. As stated above, I'll share my personal experience. I have been going at this hobby for about 8 years (started right at the end of high school), so I have a lot of acquired tooling. I have almost all of the general purpose stuff (measuring tools, hammers, etc.), so I will not include any purchases of these in my list. Last year I bought a 12x36 lathe for $1100 used. Since I got the machine my extra purchases included missing change gears ($150), 4 jaw chuck ($125), leveling feet and hardware directly for the lathe ($100), QCTP and holders ($150), centers and drill chuck ($50), indexable boring bars, turning holders, threading tools, and parting blades (~$250), an engine hoist to move the thing ($100). I did not purchase any of this to start with, only as it was required for a given job. After a year, I'm up to $925 (plus shipping and other stuff I'm sure I forgot) in additional fees. I don't think anyone would say this is so crazy.

That being said I also don't want to discourage anyone from jumping into this. If you're strapped for cash, you can get by with doing things a little more "creatively" (and there is absolutely nothing wrong with doing this).

Maybe a better statement would have been: To utilize the new machine to its full potential, expect to double (or more) your initial investment.

But again, my personal experience, your mileage may vary.
 
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