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[4]

Smart and Brown 1024 Lathe - another trip to the auction

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Chipper5783

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#1
Not many post on S&B products, so I’ll get the ball rolling. This was another “treasure from the auction”. It is not the prettiest machine around, I’ve done a good bit of cleaning and servicing – everything works. There were a few must fix and quite a few nice to fix issues. I suppose the nice to fixes could go on almost indefinitely, however I’ve decided to call it good for now and use it. The machine is a joy to run. It is 50+ years old and configured nicer in a number of ways than my other lathe (a conventional gear jammer ~1980). Nicer as in: speed change on the fly (except for the back gear), longitudinal and cross feeds set up as to the left and inward (instead of to the left and outward), enough room between the saddle and the headstock for the micrometer stop, 5C collets direct into the headstock, quieter and the 40 position QCTP that I’ve added.

This machine also came from the local government surplus auction (used to be at one of the technical colleges here – one that I went to nearly 35 years ago) – same source as the Maho mill. Not too surprising that one of the mill accessories (the swing away, machine mounted shelves) were bundled with the lathe! As was the case with the mill, I was able to get original documentation for this machine.

DSC02320.JPG DSC02326.JPG

It came with the standard kit: 3Jaw, 4Jaw, face plate, both steadies, collet drawbar, taper attachment. It has the same spindle mount as my other machine – I had been looking for a small 4 jaw chuck for the other machine. The one that came with the S&B is a very compact direct mount chuck and on one job I did on my larger lathe I needed the extra 3” of bed length that the low profile chuck provided me.

This machine was a more of a project than other machines I have taken on:
- cross slide thrust housing was broken (meaning the handwheel and bearings were in a plastic bag). The hypothesis is that the back end of the cross slide was hit during moving the machine out – which drove the slide outward. Ouch. I made a new one out of plate (turns out it would not have been very expensive to have purchased new).
- cross slide lead screw was worn pretty good (seems to be a common issue on this machine). This I made on my other lathe. I discovered 2 things making the lead screw:1. some jobs require use of a follower rest, 2. the follower rest that came with the lathe did not fit (looked to be correct as far as the paint job and the mounts) – I’d never used it in 32 years of owning the machine.
- quite a bit of play in the carriage hand wheel. Turned out the bearing that supported the pinion which engages the rack was worn – allowing the pinion to move away from the rack. The pinion is integral to the shaft. I made a new shaft, then bored out the center of the pinion and pressed/pinned the pinion onto the new shaft.
- I ended up disassembling the entire apron.
- purchased new saddle way wipers. This machine uses small little casings to capture felt wipers. None of the mounting screws lined up.
- the machine came with a Rapid Original tool post, but no holders. I fussed with the Aloris style holder from my other lathe. Finally purchased a 40 position set – really like it.
- the usual cleaning, lubricating and fixing of numerous little things.

DSC02323.JPG DSCF4164.JPG DSCF2715.JPG DSCF3301.JPG DSCF3314.JPG DSCF3335.JPG DSCF3348.JPG


Right now, this is my goto machine. The spindle brake is non-functional (pieces missing), so there is always a few seconds to wait for the spin down - that will be my excuse to get a VFD one day.

DSCF4265.JPG DSCF4266.JPG

Regards, David

DSC02320.JPG DSC02326.JPG DSC02323.JPG DSCF2715.JPG DSCF3301.JPG DSCF3314.JPG DSCF3335.JPG DSCF3348.JPG DSCF4164.JPG DSCF4265.JPG DSCF4266.JPG
 

MrFixIt

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#2
That looks like a great lathe and it cleaned up nicely! Congrats!
 

dave2176

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#3
That is a very nice looking lathe. Great job putting it back in working order.
 

FOMOGO

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#4
Nice when you can use everything from your other machine. Great job on saving and putting to use another bit of history. Mike
 

kvt

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#7
That does look nice, Should give you many years of fun
 

dlane

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#8
Looks kinda small , o wait the pics don't get big
 

Chipper5783

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#9
That is a rock solid piece of iron, beautiful :)
Strictly speaking, for the amount of metal involved, it is a pretty small machine - about 11" swing. It is a nice machine to operate (nicer than my larger machine for threading).

These are not very common in Canada, but they seem to show up in the UK from time to time.
 

ACHiPo

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#12
Not many post on S&B products, so I’ll get the ball rolling. This was another “treasure from the auction”. It is not the prettiest machine around, I’ve done a good bit of cleaning and servicing – everything works. There were a few must fix and quite a few nice to fix issues. I suppose the nice to fixes could go on almost indefinitely, however I’ve decided to call it good for now and use it. The machine is a joy to run. It is 50+ years old and configured nicer in a number of ways than my other lathe (a conventional gear jammer ~1980). Nicer as in: speed change on the fly (except for the back gear), longitudinal and cross feeds set up as to the left and inward (instead of to the left and outward), enough room between the saddle and the headstock for the micrometer stop, 5C collets direct into the headstock, quieter and the 40 position QCTP that I’ve added.

This machine also came from the local government surplus auction (used to be at one of the technical colleges here – one that I went to nearly 35 years ago) – same source as the Maho mill. Not too surprising that one of the mill accessories (the swing away, machine mounted shelves) were bundled with the lathe! As was the case with the mill, I was able to get original documentation for this machine.

View attachment 92031 View attachment 92032

It came with the standard kit: 3Jaw, 4Jaw, face plate, both steadies, collet drawbar, taper attachment. It has the same spindle mount as my other machine – I had been looking for a small 4 jaw chuck for the other machine. The one that came with the S&B is a very compact direct mount chuck and on one job I did on my larger lathe I needed the extra 3” of bed length that the low profile chuck provided me.

This machine was a more of a project than other machines I have taken on:
- cross slide thrust housing was broken (meaning the handwheel and bearings were in a plastic bag). The hypothesis is that the back end of the cross slide was hit during moving the machine out – which drove the slide outward. Ouch. I made a new one out of plate (turns out it would not have been very expensive to have purchased new).
- cross slide lead screw was worn pretty good (seems to be a common issue on this machine). This I made on my other lathe. I discovered 2 things making the lead screw:1. some jobs require use of a follower rest, 2. the follower rest that came with the lathe did not fit (looked to be correct as far as the paint job and the mounts) – I’d never used it in 32 years of owning the machine.
- quite a bit of play in the carriage hand wheel. Turned out the bearing that supported the pinion which engages the rack was worn – allowing the pinion to move away from the rack. The pinion is integral to the shaft. I made a new shaft, then bored out the center of the pinion and pressed/pinned the pinion onto the new shaft.
- I ended up disassembling the entire apron.
- purchased new saddle way wipers. This machine uses small little casings to capture felt wipers. None of the mounting screws lined up.
- the machine came with a Rapid Original tool post, but no holders. I fussed with the Aloris style holder from my other lathe. Finally purchased a 40 position set – really like it.
- the usual cleaning, lubricating and fixing of numerous little things.

View attachment 92033 View attachment 92039 View attachment 92034 View attachment 92035 View attachment 92036 View attachment 92037 View attachment 92038


Right now, this is my goto machine. The spindle brake is non-functional (pieces missing), so there is always a few seconds to wait for the spin down - that will be my excuse to get a VFD one day.

View attachment 92040 View attachment 92041

Regards, David

View attachment 92031 View attachment 92032 View attachment 92033 View attachment 92034 View attachment 92035 View attachment 92036 View attachment 92037 View attachment 92038 View attachment 92039 View attachment 92040 View attachment 92041
Sure looks purdy to me! Nice score and rehab!
 

Chipper5783

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#13
[QUOTE="redgrouse, post: 461393, member: 27405"QUOTE]




Very nice machine. I like the built in leaver collet closer. What is the story of it coming to you? What is your serial number (age of the machine)?

Regards, David
 
Last edited:

redgrouse

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#14
Hi David, Ours looks a bit more "used" now; some history --- The company I served my apprenticeship at had around 8 of these machines and I worked on one for several years on and off part during apprenticeship and part after then on to jig boring. My son also served as an apprentice some years later and helped to restore some of these machines to full use, he then left and came to work with me in the gunsmithing trade.
Many years later I heard they were scraping 2 machines so bought both of them, one went to my "apprentice" Mick who I trained up on the jig borer before I left and the other we have, son did the re-furbishment but we knew it had already been fitted with new main bearings when he was at the company but it was never finished of so languished in a corner for several years -unloved ! Our machine "lives" at my sons house along with our Bridgeport -- no chance of getting them into my shop !
They are a superb machine and capable of holding very close tolerances. I see you have fitted the Swiss style tool holder, ours is fitted with a Dickson tool holder, more common in the UK and they work very well. We run ours on a VFD drive, I'm not into electric's so left that to number one son and I think we replaced the motor, seems VFD's don't like multi-speed motors ! Probably hasn't got just as much power as the original motor but more than sufficient for our needs.
Cheers John
 

Chipper5783

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#15
Hi John, what is the serial number / vintage of your machine? I believe mine is a 1963 (S7071). I went with the 40 position (Swiss knock off), because I could not find holders for the Rapid Original at a reasonable price (another Dixon style). I now quite like the 40 position, and now have a reasonable number and different types of holders. I went with the "E" size - strictly speaking it is a bit on the large size as it held the 3/4" tools above center. I knew it might be a bit high, but I really wanted to be able to use 3/4" tools. I believe the Dixon style for this machine takes 3/4" tools no problem. I was confident that I would be able to modify the holders (I have another lathe) - the result has been very satisfactory.

Have you set up dynamic breaking on your machine? I don't have a break on my machine - that would be a nice feature. That multi speed motor would work on the VFD, but I understand the power drops off when you run the motor slow (constant torque) - and for all that huge motor it is pretty low on power. A 3 to 5 hp, 4 pole motor seems to be the direction most people take. What did you do with the old motor?

Regards, David
 

redgrouse

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#16
Hi David, don't know where time goes ! been intending to call in and get the serial number of our machine, I will and send it later. The motor we fitted is 1 1/2HP 3 phase runs of a VFD and has plenty of power for our needs, the VFD provides breaking with the ramp up and down--as i said my knowledge of electrickery is limited to simple stuff so leave the to the young 'un's.
When i worked on them back in the 1960's with the original drive -- this will probably make some cringe ! but on high speed we used to press stop then reverse until the spindle slowed almost to stop then stop again. It never seemed to cause any problems, none of the machines had a braking system. The original motor I returned to the factory as a spare since it was of no use to us and they still had machines in use [had a great deal for the 2 lathes]
Machines at the works were all purchased in the late 50's to late 60's but will get the number and send it.
One thing I notice you have the compound slide at an angle, it seems this is regularly done your side of the pond? we only ever did this for particular reasons screw cutting a very large or course thread, turning a short taper or large chamfer etc otherwise it was always set to 90deg or zero deg on the scale.
Cheers John
 

Chipper5783

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#17
Where to set the compound? I guess it is a personal preference thing. I generally leave the compound at an angle that leaves the cross slide handle clear and doesn't foul the tailstock (sort of anywhere between 15° and 75° - whatever the last setting was). For screw cutting, I do use the compound for the tool advance (which on the S&B is some steep number - I'm not fixated on 29°, between 20 to 29 is good enough for me, my other lathe is graduated from the other direction so I set it a bit above 60°.

Is it "standard practice" your side of the pond to swing the compound to "zero" - compound axis parallel to the bed?

Yes, "braking" from high speed - by hitting stop&reverse makes me cringe. My other lathe says not to reverse above a few hundred RPM (can't remember the number - I'm pretty conservative).
 

redgrouse

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#18
Good Morning David, well it is here! re-compound slide well yes its pretty standard here to keep it parallel to the bed unless there is a reason to move it over, there are machines where it interferes with the tailstock, Myford is a good example, but on the S & B if your tool holder is set correctly you should have no problem
As far as screw cutting goes I only set it over for large or very coarse threads probably above 3/4" and up, have cut probably 1000's of threads when on the job full time mainly UNF UNC 1/2; 5/8; 3/4 smaller stuff we used a die box when possible - pretty much standard in the aircraft industry back then. We made lots of "banjo fittings" for hydraulics etc all hand made in those days now it will be CNC with all the milling and turning etc done in one operation or on one machine.
The braking well I can only say it was used all the time if using high speeds and never seemed to have any detrimental effect and no one said don't so guess it was OK !
I'll call in and get that number later !!!
 

redgrouse

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#19
Hi David the serial number of our machine is S9718 not sure of the year but it will be c1960?
Just noticed your mention of the lever collet attachment , yes fairly rare and bring good prices on the used market also very useful to have especially if you are doing a bit of repetition work.
 
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