[4]

Spindle Bearing Removal: Vintage Elgin Lathe

[3]
[10] Like what you see?
Click here to donate to this forum and upgrade your account!

SmokeWalker

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member ($10)
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
95
Likes
14
#1
Hey Everyone,

I was trying to replace the spindle bearings on my 1941 Elgin split bed lathe, and though I got the spindle out of the headstock casting leaving the rear two open ball bearings (90mm OD, 70 mm ID) behind, the front bearing is harder to remove; it looks sandwiched between what looks like a screwed on ring that has a set screw that I removed, but cannot budge, and the tapered spindle nose.

Any ideas how to get this spindle apart?

I need to get it apart so I can:

1. Do measurements to find the correct bearings.
2. Install them.

SW.
 

Richard King 2

Master Machine Tool Rebuilder & Instructor
H-M Supporter - Commercial Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2018
Messages
364
Likes
348
#2
A few photo's or a factory parts manual drawing would help here. I am not sure, but the majority of the time that set screw has a brass plug under it that is jammed into the spindle shaft. So it gets lodged in and holds the nut ring tight. Look in there with a flash light and see it you see brass. May have to take a scratch awl and see if it scratches as they can get back in there. If there is a brass plug in there, screw the setscrew back leaving it about 1/8 turn loose from being tight and then take a pin punch and put it in the hex key hole and tap the set screw. Give it a med hit. This usually breaks the brass plug loose. You could also sray in some penetrating oil on top of plug before putting in the set screw.

Some builders were sneaky too and used left hand threads. See if you can see the lead at the end of the spindle threads. Please take a few pictures.
and when you do get it apart come back and tell us what you figure out. Also if it is a DOG Point set screw it may have not aligned properly in the hole and damaged the threads. If that's the case, you may have to drill the hole to remove the bad threads. Be a detective and look before you leap with a BFH. Rich
 

SmokeWalker

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member ($10)
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
95
Likes
14
#3
IMG_20180829_095224.jpg IMG_20180829_095306.jpg IMG_20180829_095301.jpg IMG_20180829_095322.jpg IMG_20180829_095313.jpg IMG_20180829_095337.jpg IMG_20180829_095328.jpg IMG_20180829_095216.jpg IMG_20180829_095205.jpg
 

SmokeWalker

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member ($10)
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
95
Likes
14
#4
I just managed to pull out the little brass plug, and you can see underneath it that it is in fact threaded on.
A few photo's or a factory parts manual drawing would help here. I am not sure, but the majority of the time that set screw has a brass plug under it that is jammed into the spindle shaft. So it gets lodged in and holds the nut ring tight. Look in there with a flash light and see it you see brass. May have to take a scratch awl and see if it scratches as they can get back in there. If there is a brass plug in there, screw the setscrew back leaving it about 1/8 turn loose from being tight and then take a pin punch and put it in the hex key hole and tap the set screw. Give it a med hit. This usually breaks the brass plug loose. You could also sray in some penetrating oil on top of plug before putting in the set screw.

Some builders were sneaky too and used left hand threads. See if you can see the lead at the end of the spindle threads. Please take a few pictures.
and when you do get it apart come back and tell us what you figure out. Also if it is a DOG Point set screw it may have not aligned properly in the hole and damaged the threads. If that's the case, you may have to drill the hole to remove the bad threads. Be a detective and look before you leap with a BFH. Rich
 

Richard King 2

Master Machine Tool Rebuilder & Instructor
H-M Supporter - Commercial Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2018
Messages
364
Likes
348
#5
If your talking about the small brass plug under the bearing bore, that's a drill hole plug. They drilled a hole. They must have needed drilled a hole to distribute oil inside the case. Before they perfected modern grease they used oil to lube many enclosed spindles. I was thinking you were talking about the bearing retainer nut behind the spindle bearings. To get them off buy a pin hook spanner wrench, Mount the spindle in a vise with lead or bronze jaw liners and hit the spanner wrench with a big soft blow hammer, one hit should be all it needs to loosen it. Providing the set screw in the bearing retainer nut had a brass plug and isn't buggered up.
 

Bob Korves

H-M Supporter - Sustaining Member
H-M Platinum Supporter ($50)
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
5,372
Likes
5,706
#6
It appears that the spindle has a left hand thread for the bearing retainer nut. Yes, the holes around the diameter are for a pin hook wrench.
 

P. Waller

H-M Supporter - Sustaining Member
H-M Platinum Supporter ($50)
Joined
Mar 10, 2018
Messages
402
Likes
246
#7
Hire a Witch, they are invaluable when replacing the bearings on a 70 year old machine, if you do not have one easily available hire a Warlock, these are not nearly as good however as the magic is slightly off.

You will experience every bit of .0001" runout this way.
Good Luck
 

SmokeWalker

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member ($10)
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
95
Likes
14
#8
If your talking about the small brass plug under the bearing bore, that's a drill hole plug. They drilled a hole. They must have needed drilled a hole to distribute oil inside the case. Before they perfected modern grease they used oil to lube many enclosed spindles. I was thinking you were talking about the bearing retainer nut behind the spindle bearings. To get them off buy a pin hook spanner wrench, Mount the spindle in a vise with lead or bronze jaw liners and hit the spanner wrench with a big soft blow hammer, one hit should be all it needs to loosen it. Providing the set screw in the bearing retainer nut had a brass plug and isn't buggered up.
Well, I got my pin hook spanner wrench, ensured there was no weirdness in the threaded hole, and I tapped on it as firmly as I dared with my big rubber mallet, and I couldn't get that damned thing off. I ended up squirting some Molykote into the bearings, putting it back together and literally washing my hands. Thanks for the advice. It's just a little noisy, and I hope the grease can quiet matters down.
 

Richard King 2

Master Machine Tool Rebuilder & Instructor
H-M Supporter - Commercial Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2018
Messages
364
Likes
348
#9
There is a company in Chicago area who rebuilds Hardinge's. If you have a problem. Give them a call and ask for Terry, tell him I recommended them. http://www.iversonandco.com/about-us/
They can help you figure it out.
 
[6]
[5] [7]
Top