[How do I?] Square Hole ?

[Shiseiji]

If this was covered, my apologies. Also an old Soldier.
Have a shop do two punch outs for you in plate material of choice. 1st is the square hole. Then that gets punched out as a washer shape that will fit inside the tubing. Maybe start with a washer.

Drill the tubing, put the washer in the tubing, put a cross piece through and hold with a square on either side, Horror Freight magnet should be sufficient, tac with a mig, remove the squares, mig in place and grind flush.

 

[RedOak]

If this was covered, my apologies. Also an old Soldier.
Have a shop do two punch outs for you in plate material of choice. 1st is the square hole. Then that gets punched out as a washer shape that will fit inside the tubing. Maybe start with a washer.

Drill the tubing, put the washer in the tubing, put a cross piece through and hold with a square on either side, Horror Freight magnet should be sufficient, tac with a mig, remove the squares, mig in place and grind flush.

Hi Shiseiji ~

Glad to see that an old vet is joining in here.

If I’m understanding you correctly, you’re suggesting that we take some mild steel to a machine shop with a square and a round press. First, we ask the shop to punch out an appropriately sized square shape. Next, we have the shop punch “around” the square shaped hole to produce a round washer with a square hole in it.

Once we have enough of these custom made washers for the job, we “fit” the custom washers into holes we cut out of our 2 x 2 uprights and weld them into place in the holes we just cut. Am I getting it, so far?

 

[ErichKeane]

Hi Shiseiji ~

Glad to see that an old vet is joining in here.

If I’m understanding you correctly, you’re suggesting that we take some mild steel to a machine shop with a square and a round press. First, we ask the shop to punch out an appropriately sized square shape. Next, we have the shop punch “around” the square shaped hole to produce a round washer with a square hole in it.

Once we have enough of these custom made washers for the job, we “fit” the custom washers into holes we cut out of our 2 x 2 uprights and weld them into place in the holes we just cut. Am I getting it, so far?

That seems to be the idea! That is basically the same as the round-outside sleeve, except likely cheaper! You could perhaps make your own by bandsawing the square-inside sleeves, or a bit of googling found some companies that make them (but sadly, no prices online!).

Any place with a laser cutter or water jet can make them, the question is if they can do them for a reasonable price...

 

[deakin]

If I’m understanding you correctly, you’re suggesting that we take some mild steel to a machine shop with a square and a round press. First, we ask the shop to punch out an appropriately sized square shape. Next, we have the shop punch “around” the square shaped hole to produce a round washer with a square hole in it.

Once we have enough of these custom made washers for the job, we “fit” the custom washers into holes we cut out of our 2 x 2 uprights and weld them into place in the holes we just cut. Am I getting it, so far?

sounds like he suggested using existing washers ( or flat bar or sheared plate) and punching the hole - then welding and grinding smooth.
lots of welding/grinding as you would need a 1 7/16 hole in that 2x2

the shop that could punch those washers could punch your tubing - but that may be too easy

 

[Shiseiji]

If I’m understanding you correctly, you’re suggesting that we take some mild steel to a machine shop with a square and a round press. First, we ask the shop to punch out an appropriately sized square shape. Next, we have the shop punch “around” the square shaped hole to produce a round washer with a square hole in it.

Once we have enough of these custom made washers for the job, we “fit” the custom washers into holes we cut out of our 2 x 2 uprights and weld them into place in the holes we just cut. Am I getting it, so far?

Yes, exactly. Have a washer made with a square hole. A shop that can do the work probably has material cheaper than you can buy it. There are places on the web now that will turn around a quote in less than a day.

And yes, I did suggest checking to see if you can just hand a shop some non-galvanized washers to punch around the bolt hole to make it square. What ever turns out to be cheapest. I have no doubt it will be far cheaper than investing in a broach and your shop time. And the real work is still in house. It's just a custom fastener Mostly.

"Son, if you ain't cheaten, you aren't trying. And if your not effing trying, your just not going to effing make it." Member of the 2/75th Ranger Battalion to a young SP4 officer candidate. Still relevant, some of the best advice I was ever given, 41 years later. Regardless, I'm sure you will figure something out.

Ron

 

[jwmelvin]

Sendcutsend will cut custom plates of whatever material you desire. That would be an easy way to achieve what you want. Not as clean looking as getting the tube itself cut.

 

[RedOak]

sounds like he suggested using existing washers ( or flat bar or sheared plate) and punching the hole - then welding and grinding smooth.
lots of welding/grinding as you would need a 1 7/16 hole in that 2x2

the shop that could punch those washers could punch your tubing - but that may be too easy

I'm not sure if you saw the post with this spec in it or not, Deakin, but the tubing being used for the uprights in the customer's design is only 0.065" in thickness. It's already been cut to length from 24' sections, so it's what we're going to be using. The horizontal material, on the other hand, has not been chosen, which is why I came to this beginner's forum. I'm no machinist, but I've already been warned that 0.065" thick mild steel deforms quite easily under a press. I also believe that the theme of the conversation has changed to making use of the rather expensive mag drill that we invested a lot of hard-earned into. Thanks for the post.

 

[ErichKeane]

If you had a mill + lathe I would think you might be able to make a 'shear' tool easily for the washers. Just buy some off-the-shelf non-zinc-coated washers about 1-5/8" round, then turn a tool to hold the washer, and another side to punch it through with a bolt... Probably want to make it out of 4140 HT so that it lasts 50x, but this might be the way to go if getting them made is expensive. Though, getting these tools made might be expensive unless you find a hobbiest to make it cheap.

 

[RedOak]

Yes, exactly. Have a washer made with a square hole. A shop that can do the work probably has material cheaper than you can buy it. There are places on the web now that will turn around a quote in less than a day.

And yes, I did suggest checking to see if you can just hand a shop some non-galvanized washers to punch around the bolt hole to make it square. What ever turns out to be cheapest. I have no doubt it will be far cheaper than investing in a broach and your shop time. And the real work is still in house. It's just a custom fastener Mostly.

"Son, if you ain't cheaten, you aren't trying. And if your not effing trying, your just not going to effing make it." Member of the 2/75th Ranger Battalion to a young SP4 officer candidate. Still relevant, some of the best advice I was ever given, 41 years later. Regardless, I'm sure you will figure something out.

Ron

Oh, yeah, we'll figure it out. This is just a discussion between and old vet, like you, and some folks willing to help out a metal-working novice.

If we can find someone in the area with the appropriate type of press --perhaps the Iron Worker suggested by Deakin earlier in this thread -- we could get a quote for as may of these custom "square" washers as required by the plan. Once we have the washers in hand, we could dust off our old Mitutoyo caliper and get a measurement to work with. I suppose, that by adding a 1/16th to that figure, we could go to work with our mag drill and a jig to hold everything in place.

Once the appropriately-sized holes are cut into the uprights, we could always lay the legs out on a flat surface, slide some washers over the horizontal tubing, as we go, and adjust the height of said horizontal tubing until the custom washers fit nicely into the holes we cut via the mag drill...and, with the help of some magnets, we would then be ready for tacking and welding the washers to the uprights. Once that's been accomplished, we do a final adjustment to the horizontal tubing and repeat the welding process. After some time with an angle and/or a die grinder, the steel frame should be ready for priming and paint. Does that sound like a solid possible alternative to round tubing?

 

[ErichKeane]

Sounds like it would work to me! Though if the frame is to be entirely welded, could you just use round-tube to go through the 2x2, then weld square tube over it? Might be costlier thanks to two pieces of material (though, the round tube doesn't actually have to go all the way through...), but might be easier. Similar to the squaring-it-up-with-wood idea above.