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T&C grinder research ???-450? Mine is a Kao Ming

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TheArsonSmith

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Been doing some research trying to find manuals and what not for my Kao Ming 450A Tool and cutter grinder. Turns out to be a fairly common base and has been sold under many different makers including Kao Ming, Enco, Jet, Mazak, standard and many others. Currently it seems a company in Vietnam is still making them and accessories for them.

Some of the model numbers I've found that show all visually identical machines with I'm sure slight variations:

450
450a
CT-457
FCT-457
KGU-450a
JCG-450a

The only manual I've been able to find is a reprint sold on ebay and amazon search for ckm-kgu-450a. I haven't received it yet but will report back more when I have.

The first attached picture is of mine, the rest are of similar ones from other vendors. If anyone has any more info on this T&C grinder I'd like to make sure it was all put together for anyone that may find one in the future.

Now on to wiring up my rotary phase converter to see if I can make some sparks!!

Also found this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxx3LqCqhIE

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Barncat

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Watched your video, and it appears yours is in better condition than my enco 450. I can't get my table to move left or right with that big rod, the hand wheel won't move at all. Any idea if there is any sort of a lock on the table?
 

TheArsonSmith

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It's a rack and pinion system, the dial/rod/lever just goes into a small gear under the table then there is a rack on the bottom of the table that it meshes with.

You can check if the gibs are too tight (should be a row of allen heads along either the front or back) They should be just snug enough to keep the table from moving front to back, but allow it to slide left to right. It could also be rusted shut, in that case get some WD40 or other rust removing solvent that can penetrate into it and brake it lose. Depending on how the coolant was taken care of this could very likely be the case.

When I get home I'll remove the table and snap a picture of what is underneath so you can see what I'm talking about.
 

Barncat

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I loosened all the gibs. I think it is probably rust. It would be great to see a picture of the table off.
 

Barncat

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Thanks for that. It looks pretty simple, mine probably is rusted. The big rod that screws into the collar around the handwheel will move the collar, but not the handwheel on mine, the handwheel is stuck firm. I need to look at it again and see if there is some sort of roll pin that should be connecting them that has sheared. I sprayed a lot of pb blaster on it last week and have been letting it soak.
 

TheArsonSmith

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I made a new guard for the side that was missing one:



I also got the manual in. It's a pretty poor copy and every other page is even upside down. I may try to re-produce it to see if I can get slightly better results. Most of the pictures look like copies of copies of copies.
 

TheArsonSmith

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Question about this grinder and anyone with any experience, would it be worth while to get a magnetic chuck to do basic surface grinding? what is the technical difference between a T&C Grinder and a surface grinder?
 

Barncat

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I made a new guard for the side that was missing one:


I also got the manual in. It's a pretty poor copy and every other page is even upside down. I may try to re-produce it to see if I can get slightly better results. Most of the pictures look like copies of copies of copies.
Exactly how the manual I got looked.
 

Barncat

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Question about this grinder and anyone with any experience, would it be worth while to get a magnetic chuck to do basic surface grinding? what is the technical difference between a T&C Grinder and a surface grinder?
I have also wondered about using a mag chuck on it. Might want to start a new thread with that question, get more responses than in the middle of this thread.
 

Cadillac

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Yes you can surface grind on the t&c. The obvious thing is size of table which dictates sizes that can be ground. A small mag chuck and precision chuck would be good tools to have to expand the capabilities of the grinder. I wouldn’t expect surface grinder precision though.
 

TheArsonSmith

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There is a cheap import ($99) 6x6" mag chuck on ebay I may pick up in before the end of the year to give it a try, unless a better deal shows up on a name brand local.
 

Cadillac

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I don’t know if theirs auction in your neck of the woods but I have great luck and that type of stuff goes cheap and usually grade A stuff.
 

TheArsonSmith

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Rare, in Phoenix we were a bit too hot during the heyday of the industrial revolution prior to the widespread use of Air Conditioning, so it never really got into our culture. ASU does seem to have a monthly auction with great stuff in it I only just started keeping an eye on. Otherwise I mostly just get lucky from retirees that moved to the area and selling off their tool boxes.
 

Barncat

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There is a cheap import ($99) 6x6" mag chuck on ebay I may pick up in before the end of the year to give it a try, unless a better deal shows up on a name brand local.
Well, did you try it as a surface grinder yet?
 

Diecutter

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I have been using my LeBlonde T&C as a surface grinder for 20 years and it is pretty accurate. Only modification I did was to make an arbor extension so the wheel was far enough out that it hits every part of the 6x12 magnetic chuck.
 

TheArsonSmith

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I haven't tried it yet. I was stuck on making a 2x72 belt grinder and haven't gotten back to this part yet.
 

shell70634

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I just got a Jet JCG 450-1 that looks just like yours but with more rust. I've got it cleaned, lubed, and running but the bed still has some pitting. It came with a 6 x 12 ENCO magnetic chuck that's also rusted. I plan on grinding the chuck surface when I figure out the proper way to use the grinder. Can you tell me where you found the manual? Does it show the different accessories available? I've got lots of parts and pieces but not sure if the are for the grinder. Do you know the name of the company making accessories? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanx,
Shelly
 

TheArsonSmith

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EvapoRust is your friend. Get the gel, or saturate paper-towels in it and lay on surfaces works pretty well. found the manual on ebay. pretty sure any grinder accessories should work fine and you can even invent your own as needed. I found a tool and cutter grinding book on amazon that while not great it's pretty good for a very entry level grinding instruction.

I never got a mag chuck for mine, but I did try surface grinding a small anvil shaped object I have that I use mostly for leather work. It made for an OK finish but I think the rack-and-pinion slide makes for an odd surface finish.
 

shell70634

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I ordered the manual. Better than nothing I guess. I mounted the wheel dressing fixture and cleaned up the wheel. Surfaced a small piece on a magnetic chuck and it worked ok. I've got to come up with a smoother way to move the table. The small handwheel isn't smooth, at least not in my hands. I've got an old power unit from a mill. Maybe I can adapt that to it.
Still going thru all the parts and pieces that came with the grinder and the mill. Maybe I'll find more goodies.

EDIT: got 3 gal Evaporust
 

Barncat

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I agree the small handwheel isn't very smooth, but with the big rod sticking out of it, it is a little easier to turn it in a consistent manner. Let's see some pictures of it and these goodies you got with it.
 

shell70634

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I didn't get a rod.
Here's my Jet Model 450-1 and stuff. I don't know if the 2 items in the last picture belong with the grinder. The shaft is threaded on each end with removable collets and the gray thing may be a fixture for grinding lathe tools.
293662


293663


293664


293665
 

shell70634

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Can't seem to orient photos properly
 

Cadillac

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Man looks like you scored good with the accessories.
Okay looks like you got some expensive diamond wheels. Very nice score.
First picture is like my Yuasa endmill grinding attachment. Allows you to do the flutes of a endmill. I do not see the tube that the endmills get mounted into or collets.
Second picture is a rotary table a dividing head with chuck can’t see if motorized, and a tailstock for either the rotary or the dividing head. The attachment with the red tag is a radius diamond dresser. Used to put a radius on grinding wheels.
Third picture looks like a arbor for a horizontal mill. Grey attachment is for grinding lathe tool bits. Round discs with holes are the plates for the dividing head and some 123 blocks. A lot of good accessories there.
 
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