Talk me in or out of a 12z mill

Chip

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The 12z looks like a good alternative that has a pathway to CNC. Is this a wise choice for a manual under $4,000?
 
Just googled them as i hadnt heard of the company, it has a realy wide table for its size, ive always wondered how that stands up to heavey stuff on the table.

Stuart
 
Do it! I double dog dare you.

Actually, i think will be nice mill.
Dave
 
Well, I can't talk you out of it, because I just put a down payment on mine... :whistle:

While everyone's requirements and desires are different, I'll share why I went ahead and picked this over the others I was looking at.

Size and weight:
This thing basically has the X, Y and Z travel (26", 12" and 22") of a small BP or other small knee mill with a 10x40 table, but without the extra weight. At the hobby level, everything is a trade off (well, for most of us). For some it's size, others weight, for some it's both. I fall into the latter category. But...this machine is also the basis for their $10k CNC mill that, according to one I spoke with, functions fine in a full production environment. I won't stress this machine anywhere near that hard, so until proven otherwise I am not worried about capability or longevity.

Availability of proven upgrades:
This machine in it's CNC form is pretty impressive. And most of those upgrades can be applied to the manual version. I paid for the 3 HP sensor less vector VFD which provides good torque across the entire rpm range of 0-3600 rpm. Planned future upgrades will include the one-shot oiling system which only requires that I drill and tap a few holes. The oil paths are already there because this is the base machine for their CNC mill. Really cool. I will also add a X-axis power feed later as if I ever have to crank back and forth through 26" on X I will build some rather massive forearms... They also offer things like a quick change tooling system and a NT30 spindle, but I doubt I'd ever need that. But then I also said some time ago that I'd never need a machine this large too... The last thing I might put in would be their two-speed pulley system, but as they have hardened steel gears in the head, I'll just see how they (gears) do for a while before I make a decision in this regard.

Custom stand:
Two stands are options, one that has wheels and one that doesn't. Either can be built to your specifications for no extra cost. I ordered the wheeled one at plus 4" of height. Really cool...

Larger head to column interface:
This thing is just plain massive. It will better distribute load across the column and 'should' enhance rigidity. It has to if it's being used in a production CNC environment. Or at least that's my reasoning.

Just my $0.02,
Bill

EDIT: I can't speak to the wise part... :))

- - - Updated - - -

Just googled them as i hadnt heard of the company, it has a realy wide table for its size, ive always wondered how that stands up to heavey stuff on the table.

Stuart

According to the GM, it will handle up to 500 lbs on the table.

Bill
 
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Thanks for the feedback. Thats a lot of good info.

You mentioned "most of those upgrades can be applied to the manual version."

Which upgrades are given up by not going full CNC from the start?
 
Thanks for the feedback. Thats a lot of good info.

You mentioned "most of those upgrades can be applied to the manual version."

Which upgrades are given up by not going full CNC from the start?

Sorry, I misspoke.

I believe what I was thinking when I typed that was that 'some' of the upgrades you wouldn't want to do if your ultimate goal was to CNC: power feed and DRO was what I was likely thinking of.

Or I may have just confused myself as I cannot type as fast as I think. :)

All of the upgrades can be applied to the manual in any combination, except the pulley conversion. That must be done after, or in conjunction with the VFD upgrade.

Bill
 
Wow thats pritty nifty, that extra 100kg of mass over the smaller bench mills must really beef it up.

Stuart

What I was told is that there is "extra ribbing" that adds to the machine's rigidity. I doubt it's any different/better than anyone else's offerings in this size range, as I would bet that these castings all come from the same foundry.

In smaller machines, you need structural design to garner sufficient stiffness for the machine's design/intended usage, whereas for a commercial machine you just start with a 5000 lb lump of iron and whittle away. Or so that's my belief. :))

Bill
 
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More good info!

Did you get a price on the v4.0 3 axis CNC conversion kit? Do you know if it will be 4th axis upgradeable? Do they sell a one shot oiler kit or are you going to source your own?
 
More good info!

Did you get a price on the v4.0 3 axis CNC conversion kit? Do you know if it will be 4th axis upgradeable? Do they sell a one shot oiler kit or are you going to source your own?

I didn't price the CNC conversion, as I'm not currently interested in CNC (but never say never). I really do like the fact that they use closed-loop servos instead of steppers (appreciated from the perspective of an embedded engineer who's written way too many lines of code for motion control systems).

Yes, there is a 4th axis option. For both manual and CNC machines

They do sell a one-shot oiling system upgrade for the manual (CNC comes with it) and the 2014 price list I have has it at $690. (ouch!) Might be cheaper to source/make my own as the mill is already set up for a oiling system. But then again I'd have to figure out how to design/build my own. Always tradeoffs...

Bill
 
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