Thanks for the replies guys. I had certainly considered going with a used unit to try to get more for my money but it seems everything in Southern California Craigslists, at least while I've been looking, is either a super heavy duty $20,000 machine or anything in my kind of price range is a rusted and beat up thing that's been sitting outside, missing parts, etc. and as a newcomer to lathes I don't want to buy into a restoration project. The lack of second hand affordable units in the area may hint at the fact that most everyone who has one hangs onto it and likes it. That's promising.
Am I giving too much importance to a DRO on a lathe? For the vertical mill it was a "must have", and I figure that if I want to make things with accurate ODs and IDs I ought to have a DRO so I can easily dial that in. But it seems a far less common feature on lathes and perhaps most find it unnecessary?
Used machines are funny, you will watch and see overpriced project machines and way overpriced "restorations' (usually just a new coat of paint) or "museum pieces" and think you can't find a decent used machine anymore. I've found the real trick is you have to be persistent checking CL several times a day, and when you see what looks like a deal jump on it quick because they won't hang around long if they are really a deal. Of course there has to be machinery out there which isn't the case everywhere.
The thing with vintage USA machines is they are old, most manufacturers making machine the average home shop person wants quit making machines here by the mid 80s so they are at a minimum of 35 years old, and many are 50+. A lot of these machines are plain worn out / neglected / abused, however when you do find a good one they were built to last several lifetimes and when you are gone, someone else will start using it. Assuming Star Trek Replicators are not in every household by then.
I started with a (new) mini-lathe and mill, I didn't have much room and anyway I was sure that was all I'd ever need because I just wanted to make tiny stuff. Famous last words, I didn't know how addictive machining was, I just saw it as a means to an end (making stuff) and now fixing up machines, making tooling for them etc is as much of a hobby as the modeling that got me into this mess. I now have a variety of larger machines and some machines that I didn't even know existed when I was starting out. I also got pretty good at making space for it where none existed. I still use those little machines for the jobs I got them for, the bigger machines do the bigger stuff I discovered I like doing (mostly making stuff for the machines it seems, I'm not really sure who is in charge anymore
).
New machines are a safe bet, even the Chinese machines are a pretty good value for what most hobbyists and light industry needs. There is better quality stuff for those who need it / can afford it. The vintage stuff can be a great value, often built to a standard well beyond our simple needs and it has more character (in my opinion), but also some liabilities. Wear, parts availability, manuals and tech support being the big ones. The machine may be perfect but operators aren't and at some point you may break something. The machine doesn't even need to be that old, I've seen posts where people are having trouble getting parts for a machine they bought new 10 or 15 years ago. Some of the old companies still offer decent support for their ancient machines (Logan and Clausing / Atlas / Kalamazoo), some are long demised.
I'm also bit of a contradiction, I feel pretty strongly that new is a better choice for beginners. That was the plan I intended to follow but I've ended up with a shop full of vintage machines. That happened largely through a great
enabler err support network who helped me find my first old machines and gave me guidance and the confidence to evaluate them on my own. This place has many great members who will happily spend your money, but they are also pretty good about helping you spend it wisely. Most of the machines in my shop are older than I am. I also recognize I got here through a little luck and a lot of help. Those who are to blame know who they are.
I will also add, once you have something, even if it isn't your dream machine it gets a lot easier to sit back a watch for a deal on your perfect machine.
I just wanted to make the point that lathes can be modded to improve their function but, in general, they cannot be upgraded to be more than they already are. You cannot add a quick change gear box, a larger spindle or a camlock spindle if the lathe doesn't have it originally.
Agree with Mikey on this, usually when you see people modding their machines it is to address a design shortcoming or damage. The 9x19 and 10x22 lathes have a pretty active user group with loads of mods. Most will readily admit they have so many mods because the machines fall a little short of perfection. You see a lot less of this with the bigger machines, they cost more upfront and know their users will be less tolerant of cut corners. If you spend $2000 on a new lather you can not expect the same quality as one that costs $8000. As much love as the vintage stuff gets, you see owners doing a lot of work to bring an old machine back up to spec. You do occasionally see somebody putting on a different spindle, or adding a gear box but that is usually because it was an option for that lathe and just didn't come on that particular machine. It would be quite a job to do something like that from scratch.
The Grizzly uses a threaded spindle, which is faster than the bolt-on style the PM 10x lathes use, but threaded chucks limit your ability to run in reverse, as the chuck could thread off under power. That would be... bad. I don't think that would be a dealbreaker, but it's nice for some operations.
Not sure about the G0602, but the G4000 9x19 actually has a simple locking collar to prevent the chuck from backing off. Just a piece of angle stock with a screw but it works. I had quite a time trying to get the chuck off my Enco before I noticed that little screw...
