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Teco VFD on Gorton mill help

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Liljoebrshooter

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#1
I just brought home a Gorton 1-22 mill and bought a TecoL510 VFD to power it. I have been reading about hooking these up quite a bit, and the more I read the more confused I become.
I tried to power it up by just hooking the output from the vfd to the 3 wires from the electrical box that contains all the relays and contactors. Nothing worked, so I just hooked th vfd directly to the leads from the motor. It fired right up. The issue I am facing is powering the feed motor on the table.
My question is, can I, or should I eliminate the contactors after the vfd and run directly to the motor?
Question 2. How can I power the transformer for the power feed motor if I do eliminate the other stuff?
I will try to attach a picture of it.
Thanks for any help you can give me.
Joe Hynes
 

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Ulma Doctor

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#2
Hi Joe,
unfortunately VFD's do not work with magnetic contactors or transformers on their output.
a VFD's main output is designed simply for running a motor only
if your power feed motor is not the same voltage as the main motor, you will not be able to run them from the same VFD
if the power feed motor IS the same voltage as the spindle, you could use the same VFD, with a drawback
both motors will use the same output of the VFD and both will be confined to the same frequency
the other option off the top of my head is to Run a VFD for the spindle, then also supply single phase to the transformer and control circuit for the power feed to restore normal OEM operation in that circuit
 

markba633csi

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#3
Joe: Ulma is correct you will be connecting the VFD directly to the motor bypassing the contactors. The power feed transformer will be powered from single phase 120 volt or 240 volt- you need to check what voltage(s) can be used with it, should be marked on the transformer itself but sometimes you need the actual diagrams and data for the machine. Do you have any manuals or schematics?
Mark S.
ps do I see some crispy components on the power feed board? A close up pic would be helpful
looks like a blown? fuse on the floor of the power feed box- an ominous sign but it could just be a spare
 
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Eddyde

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#4
Since you cannot practically run the spindle and feed at the same speed and direction at the same time, you should probably just get a 2nd VFD to power the feed motor. You cannot have any switches or contractors between the VFD and the motor, All control wiring must go to the VFD.
 

cathead

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#5
Hi Joe and welcome to the Hobby Machinist forum.

The easy way to run your machine would be to use a rotary phase converter. My 9J Gorton has basically the
same set up and everything works using the RPC. You would not have to rewire anything that way. I would guess
that your feed motor is 220V 3 phase as well. It's very easy to make an RPC using a 3 phase motor so worth the
consideration, inexpensive as well.
 

Liljoebrshooter

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Here is the tag from the transformer. I made the connections to change the input voltage to 220 when I was making all the others connections. I pulled the fuse out so if something was incorrect it wouldn't fry everything.
I was reading last night about not being able to use any contactors in the circuit with a vfd. This will let me eliminate most of the old stuff in that panel, so that actually sounds good to me.
Now I need to figure out how to hook up the circuit to the feed motor transformer. I was hoping I could wire a relay into the power switch circuit so it would be on one switch.
Thank you for the help guys.
Joe Hynes
 

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Liljoebrshooter

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So I have been doing some more reading and I think the terminals RA and RB are for switching a relay? So all I should need to get is a relay for 220v and wire it to the on-off?
Am I heading in the right direction?
I know this can be done, I just need someone smarter than me to show me how to do it correctly.
 

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Eddyde

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#8
Not sure what you are trying to achieve; send power to the feed motor only when the spindle VFD is powered up?
Also, I see the feed motor is DC, so a second VFD is not an option.
Might want to follow Catheads suggestion and go the RPC route.
 

Liljoebrshooter

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Yes I would like to have the feed motor transformer powered only when the main motor is running. I could just run a separate switched feed to it but I'm worried that I will forget to turn it off and end up burning up the transformer.
 

cathead

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#10
The plot thickens....

You could run the main motor with the VFD and take some power off the transformer and make a simple bridge rectifier to power
DC feed motor, thats assuming the transformer is powered up all the time. What does it say on the transformer? Is it a single phase
transformer and what is it used for in it's present state? Apparently the feed motor has been changed out or something. You might as
well take advantage of the VFD if you can. Another option would be to build up a simple power supply for the feed motor and run it on 120V AC single phase.
 

cathead

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#11
Joe,

The board on the right of the transformer looks like it could possibly be a rectifier to
power the DC feed motor. Is that a heat sink and some rectifiers on that board?
It's somewhat hard to tell from the photo but that would make sense to me.
Also, I think I can see an electrolytic capacitor or two indicating that the board
would be the DC feed motor supply.
 

Eddyde

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#15
IMHO, only being able to run the feed motor while the spindle is running is not the best scenario. You might want to use the feed during setup, could save a lot of cranking. Also, could be a safety issue as you might be tempted to do that while running the spindle...
You won't burn up the transformer by leaving it on, but there is a way to avoid that too. Have a main power switch (could be a contractor) supplying the VFD and the transformer, you could simply use the VFD display to indicate power on, or if it won't be visibly mounted, have a pilot lamp indicate status.
 

cathead

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#16
I am thinking about using a power relay similar to this one.
That would likely work to connect the 220 single phase to the input of the VFD. It looks like a DPST(double pole single throw)
and looks heavy enough for that application.
 

mksj

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#17
It is a DC power feed, the power (120VAC X1, X2) is fed off of the transformer. All you would need is a main power disconnect switch (like 40 or 50A) that would provide single phase power to the the VFD and the transformer (H1 and H4, with a jumper from H1 to H3 and H2 to H4 for 240VAC input). The VFD would be directly wired to the motor. The drive stays on when the machine is on, it has its own DC supply and controls running off of the transformer. You would want some form of input fusing for the VFD and separate fusing for the transformer, usually both input and output. If you go with the VFD then you will want some form of remote pod for the start stop/direction and speed pot. The VFD needs to be programmed accordingly.

The alternative is an RPC, really depends on if there are any other powered systems like pumps or other drives, and if it has a variable speed mechanical drive or is it belted pulleys for the speed changes?

Corrected the connections for 240VAC, couldn't make out the jumpers numbers in the picture and assumed they were linear, thought it was a bit strange as the coils would be in parallel.
 

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markba633csi

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#18
Hi Joe, just run the power feed transformer from a simple switch from your breaker panel, you could have a pilot light or something if you are worried about leaving it on. No need to make it more complex.
It looks like H1 tie to H3, H2 tie to H4 for 220/240 volt. Then power goes to H1 and H2
Mark
 

Liljoebrshooter

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#19
Yeah I changed the jumper wires on the transformer the other night after that pic was taken.
I'm going to do some more checking tonight after work and see if the RA and RB terminals are switching power when the VFD is turned on.
I will take a clearer picture of transformer side and maybe someone can identify problem areas I could update on that circuit board.
Joe Hynes
 

markba633csi

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#20
Yes you could use RA and RB contacts to close another relay which would put power to the power feed transformer if you wanted to go that route.
Mark
RA and RB are just contacts though, no power comes out from there.
Do you know if the power feed is functional?
 
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Eddyde

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#21
Also, you may have to activate the RA & RB contacts in the parameters, and maybe select if they are NO or NC....
 

Liljoebrshooter

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#22
Yes the power feed motor does work.
I messed with changing the switch from the vfd control to the machine on-off switch. I had to change the settings, but it will work.
Here is a picture of the transformer and panel someone asked to see.
Just want to say Thank you for the help everyone has given me.
 

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Ulma Doctor

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#24
there is another simple method of getting 115v to the control circuit.
if you were to omit the transformer completely and use 115v from a wall plug.
you'll need to add a suitable fuse to the hot leg of 115v, but the wiring would be simple and you could add an on/off switch or send the power through a relay operated by the VFD with some forethought
 

markba633csi

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I think I would want to keep a transformer in there for isolation even if it was just 115 to 115, but yes in theory it would work, you could eliminate it
M
 

mksj

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#26
I would check the wiring on the drive transformer, the jumper should be from H1 to H3, and H2 to H4 for 230VAC in, 115 VAC out. Power is in is connected to H1 and H4, i.e. the coils are in parallel for 230VAC operation. You could check the output with a voltmeter with the output fuse removed. You could run the drive direct from 115 VAC, but there is some potential benefit of using the transformer which isolates the drive and limits the current. As mentioned, I do not see the need to power the drive transformer through a contactor/relay. I do not see the benefit to have it switched on by a contactor that is triggered by the VFD relay.

I tried to find a schematic for this mill, but the manual only describes the DC drive. Some of the wiring, like to the motor looks a bit crispy and may need replacing, in particular if it is being hooked up to the VFD output.
 

Liljoebrshooter

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#28
An update on the progress of my mill. I replaced almost all of the electrical including one of the enclosures.
I am in the process of tearing down the top end now. I have had the bottom apart and cleaned up and replaced all the bearings and oiler systems.
I found a set of bearings on the bay for a pretty good price.
 

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Eddyde

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#30
Looking good!
 
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