Tell me what level to buy...

A possibility would to find a cheap Starrett #98 possibly with a cracked vial for cheap and buying a new .0005 vial for it; it would be advisable to scrape the base flat, as they are only machined and not necessarily flat. I installed tw0 new .0035 vials in tubes in machining up parts for a Kingway Alignment Tool; they are simply inserted in the tub with plaster of Paris and possibly some paper shimming.
We got the vials from W.A. Moyer Co. of Emporia Kansas.
 
I agree with RJ, you should use a three point leveling table. Mine is just Melamine-coated plywood with three adjustable screws/legs. It allows for fairly quick and accurate calibration. You should use two fences to ensure your level is in the exact same place after you flip it. Be sure the fences are in place before you begin the leveling process so they are taken into account when you level the table. I use a bubble level in the center of the adjustable table to get it roughly level before calibrating.

I am attaching a file to guide you through this process. It isn't difficult to do but can take some time. The bubble can take up to a minute to settle so take your time when calibrating (and using it). Once the level is calibrated it will usually hold its calibration for some time and all you need to do is verify it.

This is great thank you. I've ordered a Shars 8" which should be fine for now. I will be building the stand this week with 2" square tubing. So it will also have leveling feet as well as the 3 point leveling setup for the plate. I've made my cut list for the stand and will go by the 3 points on the bottom of the plate for mounting. Probably will take me longer than my expected spare time this week. For the fences what should I be using. I don't really want to buy a granite block for a fence. What should I be using? I assume I can use the same fence for leveling as the one I will use for calibrating my level.

I understand using a fence to calibrate the level. But I'm losing you where you say to use two? Would you place the two fences at different areas on the plate? Or just at a 90 degree to each other?

Paul
 
A possibility would to find a cheap Starrett #98 possibly with a cracked vial for cheap and buying a new .0005 vial for it; it would be advisable to scrape the base flat, as they are only machined and not necessarily flat. I installed tw0 new .0035 vials in tubes in machining up parts for a Kingway Alignment Tool; they are simply inserted in the tub with plaster of Paris and possibly some paper shimming.
We got the vials from W.A. Moyer Co. of Emporia Kansas.

I might do this with a longer or shorter level. I'd like to have a 4" and a larger one 10" or 12" for later projects....and I'm already a hand tool hoarder so this hobby is giving me 100s of new tools to look for. :)

Paul
 
A fence is only meant to get the level in the exact same position when you flip it. It doesn't need to be fancy or heavy; it just has to locate. The next time I calibrate my level, I'll just clamp my aluminum framing square to the table and that will suffice to register the side and end.

Keep in mind that you do NOT need a surface plate to calibrate a level; you need a level surface under the level and the level itself has to be in the exact same position when you flip it. Of course, if you wish, you can use a surface plate but I think that is going a bit far, myself.
 
There is one other consideration. If your lathe bed is well worn, as may hobby lathes are- including my 12" x48" big iron Utilathe- you are wasting your time trying to precision level to tenths. Can't be done if the wear on the bed is to much. Each side and end of the lathe will have a different extent of wear - nothing will be the same heght along the bed. So the best you may be able to do with an old lathe can be accomplished with less than a high precision leveling device. If your lathe is new or in nice shape, go for a top end level. If it's seen better days, indeed better decades, what Bob said. Shoot for decent resolution and repeatability - find the best comprise position for the type of machining you do, and re level to that from time to time. I found a sweet spot on my old big lathe, and it still holds a thou consistently at the chuck- so I am happy with that, even though the far end of the bed is high and twisted out .005".-actually more like .025" now that I think about it.
 
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Most all lathe beds, except for one's with flat ways like the Atlas or the early L & S Model X lathes, have sweet spots you can level from regardless the wear on the vee's or flats. As Glen said, It's not going to help for accuracy in the long run other than knowing you have a leveled bed. It could make things worse!
 
Most all lathe beds, except for one's with flat ways like the Atlas or the early L & S Model X lathes, have sweet spots you can level from regardless the wear on the vee's or flats. As Glen said, It's not going to help for accuracy in the long run other than knowing you have a leveled bed. It could make things worse!

The main reason I have for leveling is to be able to measure for wear of the bed. Intent of course is to scrape it back into alignment. I hope I'm understanding it correctly that I need to get it level first. Before any measurements are taken. If I make it worse I'm not sure where to go from there! :) Please don't let it be worse!

Paul
 
There is one other consideration. If your lathe bed is well worn, as may hobby lathes are- including my 12" x48" big iron Utilathe- you are wasting your time trying to precision level to tenths. Can't be done if the wear on the bed is to much. Each side and end of the lathe will have a different extent of wear - nothing will be the same heght along the bed. So the best you may be able to do with an old lathe can be accomplished with less than a high precision leveling device. If your lathe is new or in nice shape, go for a top end level. If it's seen better days, indeed better decades, what Bob said. Shoot for decent resolution and repeatability - find the best comprise position for the type of machining you do, and re level to that from time to time. I found a sweet spot on my old big lathe, and it still holds a thou consistently at the chuck- so I am happy with that, even though the far end of the bed is high and twisted out .005".-actually more like .025" now that I think about it.

Glenn, If the idea is to scrape it in (after my practice on the straight edges) It's a short lathe with a 43" bed including under the head stock. Ideally wouldn't the area under the head stock and the very end of the bed be mostly intact? I realize I'm reaching here with a 70+ year old lathe. It's way more effort than it's worth in it's current state. I'm OK with that. I've got a great understanding that our hobby is a Negative pay per hour situation. What I'm really after is a good lesson in scraping with at least good result in the end. The art of scraping and metrology itself is so far away from what I do everyday it would be quite an accomplishment for me If I can get reasonably far with it. With all the support I can get from here! :)

Paul
 
Where I worked we had several machines setup by the manufacture.. None of the used a machinist level. They had 2ft and 4ft levels.
 
Glenn, If the idea is to scrape it in (after my practice on the straight edges) It's a short lathe with a 43" bed including under the head stock. Ideally wouldn't the area under the head stock and the very end of the bed be mostly intact? I realize I'm reaching here with a 70+ year old lathe. It's way more effort than it's worth in it's current state. I'm OK with that. I've got a great understanding that our hobby is a Negative pay per hour situation. What I'm really after is a good lesson in scraping with at least good result in the end. The art of scraping and metrology itself is so far away from what I do everyday it would be quite an accomplishment for me If I can get reasonably far with it. With all the support I can get from here! :)

Paul


Paul,
FYI, yes, from what I know, the lathe bed under the headstock is most likely to be an original reference surface. Maybe you will even see the original scrape marks and flaking if you take it off. I did a lot of research in scraping and truing my 12" Utilathe. Two things machine rebuilders often mention is to measure the extent of wear on top of the bed, and also check flatness of the reference surfaces on the underside of the ways. If the top wear is excessive, say .030" or thereabouts, scraping won't help much as it takes a lifetime to scrape that much material to a flat plane. These guys suggest grinding the ways and scraping the last 3-5 thou or so... also, apparently you can measure differential wear along both sides of the ways by measuring vertically from the underside of the way- which is the reference surface a local grinding shop told me they use to set up a lathe bed grinding job.
 
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