The 30 yr break is over for this 745.

[Dabbler]

I got to talk to a bunch of 'lubricant analysts' (these guys actually exist) when I was researching Hydraulic oils for a client. The very short (and simplified) story is that way oils have extra 'stiction ingredients' (their words not mine) in order to make a thick adhering film on surfaces - that is, they are designed to not run off. This sacrifices lubricity for staying around, but the lubricity is enough for the purpose.

They also disabused me of the notion that the thicker the oil the better protection for the gears. This is completely false, but many non-technical people think it is true. It IS true that there is a tendency for thicker oils to have more lubricity and more film strength, but it doesn't have to be. Many high-performing sulfated anti wear additives actually lower the viscosity of the gear oil, but give it better anti-wear properties. The heavy formulations for gear oils in differentials relates to that particular use, and is not universal across all uses.

When I inquired about gear oils in the lathe headstock and apron - to a one they said 'any hydraulic oil',' any viscosity will be fine' for that use. - Apparently this is a non-demanding application. In an apron, if you have a pump that oils the ways you should always use a way oil there...

Every manufacturer has technical staff that will willingly answer any of your lubrication questions . I talked to Shell, Esso, and Husky oil lubricant experts. These guys apparently save bigger clients millions of dollars per year by specifying the best lubricants for specific tasks.

 

[Djbtransport]

I think you are missing the point. That both Fram AW-68 and Vactra 2 are VG 68 is not the same as defining them as interchangeable. The VG stands for Viscosity Grade. That definition is in BOLD print in the screenshot you posted. Viscosity is only one, of many characteristics of a lubricant.
If I were a tribology expert, I might describe numerous characteristic in excruciating detail. However, I'm not a tribology expert so I only share what information I believe and hope will be useful. AW-68 hydraulic oil is not the same as Vactra 2 way oil.

Extropic: So if ld like to thank you for your concern on this oil discussion. So today I called a local oil sales company and was put in contact with a gentleman at Sun oil (Sunoco) in Canton, Ohio. He CONFIRMED with me that Fram AW-68 which is a ISO-68 product. As is Mobil Vactra #2 Which is also a ISO-68. Have the SAME lubrication values, And can be used where ANY application requires a ISO-68 product.

You can disagree with this gentlemans explanation. As the others that told me the same thing. Including the manufacturer of the mill.

Again thank you for bringing this subject up, It forced me to seek the advice of a professional in that industry to seek knowledge from. And I learned something about how oils and lubes are rated in the ISO system. And how marketing can and ofter does effect the prices of these products. Yes, we spoke about other products other than just this topic. Because I also own a imported Italian Tractor that lists lubes that are NOT AVAILABLE here in the US. And he gave me a list of other lubes that ARE sold here that can be used and will not effect the warranty. And still do what this 3 point front mount and its hydraulic system requires.

 

[extropic]

Extropic: So if ld like to thank you for your concern on this oil discussion. So today I called a local oil sales company and was put in contact with a gentleman at Sun oil (Sunoco) in Canton, Ohio. He CONFIRMED with me that Fram AW-68 which is a ISO-68 product. As is Mobil Vactra #2 Which is also a ISO-68. Have the SAME lubrication values, And can be used where ANY application requires a ISO-68 product.

You can disagree with this gentlemans explanation. As the others that told me the same thing. Including the manufacturer of the mill.

Again thank you for bringing this subject up, It forced me to seek the advice of a professional in that industry to seek knowledge from. And I learned something about how oils and lubes are rated in the ISO system. And how marketing can and ofter does effect the prices of these products. Yes, we spoke about other products other than just this topic. Because I also own a imported Italian Tractor that lists lubes that are NOT AVAILABLE here in the US. And he gave me a list of other lubes that ARE sold here that can be used and will not effect the warranty. And still do what this 3 point front mount and its hydraulic system requires.

I have tried (an failed) so I leave you to it. I don't doubt that you'll get along just fine.

 

[matthewsx]

I got to talk to a bunch of 'lubricant analysts' (these guys actually exist) when I was researching Hydraulic oils for a client. The very short (and simplified) story is that way oils have extra 'stiction ingredients' (their words not mine) in order to make a thick adhering film on surfaces - that is, they are designed to not run off. This sacrifices lubricity for staying around, but the lubricity is enough for the purpose.

They also disabused me of the notion that the thicker the oil the better protection for the gears. This is completely false, but many non-technical people think it is true. It IS true that there is a tendency for thicker oils to have more lubricity and more film strength, but it doesn't have to be. Many high-performing sulfated anti wear additives actually lower the viscosity of the gear oil, but give it better anti-wear properties. The heavy formulations for gear oils in differentials relates to that particular use, and is not universal across all uses.

When I inquired about gear oils in the lathe headstock and apron - to a one they said 'any hydraulic oil',' any viscosity will be fine' for that use. - Apparently this is a non-demanding application. In an apron, if you have a pump that oils the ways you should always use a way oil there...

Every manufacturer has technical staff that will willingly answer any of your lubrication questions . I talked to Shell, Esso, and Husky oil lubricant experts. These guys apparently save bigger clients millions of dollars per year by specifying the best lubricants for specific tasks.

I buy “tractor oil” from Tractor Supply in 5 gal buckets and use it for everything in my machine tools unless I have a good reason to do otherwise.

If I ever start using my machines to make money (8 hours/day) I’ll reevaluate this practice but for the measly amount of time I actually run them I’m confident that no undue wear is happening from my choice of lubricant.

Manufacturers recommendations have to cover extreme use, I once had a car that the owners manual told you what to do if you were running over 100 mph on a regular basis. I’m a little old lady only driving to church on Sunday when it comes to machining

I used to build racing kart motors that ran on methanol and nitromethane. I broke them in on my dyno and shipped a quart of oil with them. When folks asked about oil about the only thing I could recommend was to use the proper amount and change it frequently.

Use what you like but mostly make sure you use enough.

JMHO

John

 

[Dabbler]

I buy “tractor oil” from Tractor Supply in 5 gal buckets

that is a good philosophy. I have a lot of machine tools (too many?) and so I have a 5gal bucket of iso32 hydraulic oil, a 5 gal bucket of way oil, and perhaps 6 1 gal buckets of specialized lubricants, as well as 2 kinds of cutting oil. It is what works for me.

 

[Djbtransport]

I buy “tractor oil” from Tractor Supply in 5 gal buckets and use it for everything in my machine tools unless I have a good reason to do otherwise.

If I ever start using my machines to make money (8 hours/day) I’ll reevaluate this practice but for the measly amount of time I actually run them I’m confident that no undue wear is happening from my choice of lubricant.

Manufacturers recommendations have to cover extreme use, I once had a car that the owners manual told you what to do if you were running over 100 mph on a regular basis. I’m a little old lady only driving to church on Sunday when it comes to machining

I used to build racing kart motors that ran on methanol and nitromethane. I broke them in on my dyno and shipped a quart of oil with them. When folks asked about oil about the only thing I could recommend was to use the proper amount and change it frequently.

Use what you like but mostly make sure you use enough.

JMHO

John

Hello, Yes. As well as I do with our older equipment that I've been slowly replacing. Like the Ford tractors from the 60's. Some yrs back we purchased this McCormick F-Series with the front 3 point hitch style that they use in the UK and other places like New Zealand and Australia. The pumps that these series of tractors use have to have this crazy expensive hydraulic oil in them, Or you quickly find out that there even more expensive to replace. And since we do a LOT of mowing, The dealer talked us into this specific design of tractor. And now we are seeing more and more of these front mounted mowers popping up all over. Especially on skid steers today. And if you haven't had a chance to use on, don't let it slip by if you do. It makes mowing around trees and fence lines so much easier. And less chance of damage to the style of fence we use. Add in the Quick attach Q-25 loader and the 36" rotary mower that is Hydraulically driven and now we can side cut trails and tree lines up to almost 14' off the ground. And having this tractor with the high flow pump and the external cooler allows you to work all day even on the hottest days of summer all from inside the AC cooled cab. So yea, its all relative. But its what keeps the wife happy for her side business and allows us to still do the things we want to. Even though I was forced into being medically retired as I am now.

 

[Djbtransport]

I buy “tractor oil” from Tractor Supply in 5 gal buckets and use it for everything in my machine tools unless I have a good reason to do otherwise.

If I ever start using my machines to make money (8 hours/day) I’ll reevaluate this practice but for the measly amount of time I actually run them I’m confident that no undue wear is happening from my choice of lubricant.

Manufacturers recommendations have to cover extreme use, I once had a car that the owners manual told you what to do if you were running over 100 mph on a regular basis. I’m a little old lady only driving to church on Sunday when it comes to machining

I used to build racing kart motors that ran on methanol and nitromethane. I broke them in on my dyno and shipped a quart of oil with them. When folks asked about oil about the only thing I could recommend was to use the proper amount and change it frequently.

Use what you like but mostly make sure you use enough.

JMHO

John

Hello, Yes. As well as I do with our older equipment that I've been slowly replacing. Like the Ford tractors from the 60's. Some yrs back we purchased this McCormick F-Series with the front 3 point hitch style that they use in the UK and other places like New Zealand and Australia. The pumps that these series of tractors use have to have this crazy expensive hydraulic oil in them, Or you quickly find out that there even more expensive to replace. And since we do a LOT of mowing, The dealer talked us into this specific design of tractor. And now we are seeing more and more of these front mounted mowers popping up all over. Especially on skid steers today. And if you haven't had a chance to use on, don't let it slip by if you do. It makes mowing around trees and fence lines so much easier. And less chance of damage to the style of fence we use. Add in the Quick attach Q-25 loader and the 36" rotary mower that is Hydraulically driven and now we can side cut trails and tree lines up to almost 14' off the ground. And having this tractor with the high flow pump and the external cooler allows you to work all day even on the hottest days of summer all from inside the AC cooled cab. So yea, its all relative. But its what keeps the wife happy for her side business and allows us to still do the things we want to. Even though I was forced into being medically retired as I am now

Pulling the spindle and getting it reground seems like a lot of work and expense to me. A brief search turned up B&S 9 collets on ebay. I can't vouch for their quality, but personally I'd give them try before getting the spindle reground.

I had to go back and tell you about "Pulling the Spindle" The hard part was keeping from dropping it. All it takes to remove it is. Pull the draw bar. Un screw a thumb screw that holds the little scale reference for the quill depth. And 2, 3/8's cap bolts that hold the block that mounted to side of the quill to keep it from dropping out. And you simply unwind it down till it clears the rack. And you better be ready for it (Thankfull I was) As Mark from Wells Index gave me a little trick to help me out with the 1.5 hands I have working. And the quill just dropped out just like we planned.

The trick was to run the over arm and head back to where its centered over the table. Then to put a piece of 2x8 or 2x10 pine on the top of the table. Then run the quill all the way down till it hits the stop still installed and the gears of the rack still holding it in place. Then placed a old fender protector on the 2x8. Then lowered the padded table so there was only about a 1/2" drop when the quill rack cleared the gear teeth. Then just lowered the table till the longer shaft cleared the head and bingo she was out. Just put of curiosity and to have a idea what its going to cost to ship it up there. I tossed it on my scale in the garage, I don't know what a quill should way. But I was a bit surprised when this one hit 27 lbs. Ive never had my hands into a Bridgeport or Acer mill. But everyone I've spoken with all agree that these Index mills where well built. Ive even heard over engineered a few times. I'll tell you this, The WARNING that Index puts on the steps for quill removal sheet. Aren't lieing about being careful not to allow the handle thats under spring tension to get away from you. Because the spring in there definitely has some power behind it. I have to hand it to Mark Neilson, He's been a wealth of knowledge on this project so fare. And is quick to answer a email and provide me with all kinds of information thats been helpful along the way.

So yea, I gave it some thought of just sticking to the B&S#9 tool holders. But with all this R-8 stuff I got from the auctions I've attended, for practically nothing. My gut says get it re ground for R-8.

 

[Djbtransport]

that is a good philosophy. I have a lot of machine tools (too many?) and so I have a 5gal bucket of iso32 hydraulic oil, a 5 gal bucket of way oil, and perhaps 6 1 gal buckets of specialized lubricants, as well as 2 kinds of cutting oil. It is what works for me.

Never enough tools/toys.

 

[matthewsx]

Hello, Yes. As well as I do with our older equipment that I've been slowly replacing. Like the Ford tractors from the 60's. Some yrs back we purchased this McCormick F-Series with the front 3 point hitch style that they use in the UK and other places like New Zealand and Australia. The pumps that these series of tractors use have to have this crazy expensive hydraulic oil in them, Or you quickly find out that there even more expensive to replace. And since we do a LOT of mowing, The dealer talked us into this specific design of tractor. And now we are seeing more and more of these front mounted mowers popping up all over. Especially on skid steers today. And if you haven't had a chance to use on, don't let it slip by if you do. It makes mowing around trees and fence lines so much easier. And less chance of damage to the style of fence we use. Add in the Quick attach Q-25 loader and the 36" rotary mower that is Hydraulically driven and now we can side cut trails and tree lines up to almost 14' off the ground. And having this tractor with the high flow pump and the external cooler allows you to work all day even on the hottest days of summer all from inside the AC cooled cab. So yea, its all relative. But its what keeps the wife happy for her side business and allows us to still do the things we want to. Even though I was forced into being medically retired as I am now.

Yes, for high class newish stuff definitely use the specialized lubricants recommended.
I'm talking about my 40-year-old Taiwan built lathe here and similar stuff where the actual use doesn't justify fancy oil.

Back when I was running my outdoor power equipment business I actually got fairly good at reading oil specifications and probably had 10 different types in stock plus what I needed for specialized jobs. running a PTO powered attachment all day long can definitely be a demanding application. I sold and serviced zero-turn mowers which definitely can be hard on their hydraulics but are great for mowing around trees and such. Fortunately these days I can get by with electric and battery powered mowers for the little patches of grass we have at our homes.

John

 

[vtcnc]

Congrats on your find! Congrats on your first big post! I read the whole thing. When I got to the part about the price, I realized I was holding my breath and let out a “sonnuva b——!”

If you haven’t received it yet, here is your official, “You Suck!” award from all of us jealous machine treasure hunters out there!


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