The Charter Oak 12z bed mill discussion thread

Chuck - you are reading my mind on used mills. I have been watching my local craigslist but they are smoking crack on prices. I .... you not one guy was asking more for his grizzly than grizzly sells the mill new because...he cleaned off the shipping grease.

Maker - Correct the 9901 top speed is only 2,400 I'd have to jump up another grand to $6k plus add a VFD. The other thing about a knee mill is how do you contain the mess, its relatively easy to build an enclosure around the CO.

Jim - I'm cramped for space and contemplating getting rid of some machines. The Kubota and yard work stuff eats one of the three bays. In the other two I have a big ass 12" table saw, planer, jointer, band saw, cyclone, mortiser, the G4003G lathe, workbench, and a couple rolling tool chests.
 
That being said, I would certainly look at other options at 5k. Maybe you find better maybe not, but look all the same. I know for 5k you can slide into some really really nice used mills.

I won't speak for anyone but myself but in my case I don't WANT a one-ton piece of iron in my garage unless I never have to move it again, and given my history, that ain't gonna happen until I retire. Oh, and that phrase of "there are plenty of GOOD used mills out there doesn't apply around here. Sorry. The only ones I've seen locally in that price range are completely worn out POS like that one my friend bought. Back East is probably different, but many of us don't live there. :)

When I bought Blue (PM25) that was the biggest machine I wanted to deal with while I'm still working. Same for the SB 8k. Then along comes this 12Z thingie. Very similar work envelope to that PM935 Taiwan machine that I have had in the back of my mind for when I retire, but without 'most' of the weight. And cost. As someone stated in a different thread, the CO 12Z is probably pretty close to the rigidity of a BP clone given they carry the majority their weight in the base and knee. The head of a BP/clone is on a sliding/rotating knuckle for flexibility of usage. I've seen some of those commercial 5-6 thousand pound 'real' mills. Now those give new meaning to the term rigid. The flip side is they are completely unusable for a guy like me. In my life everything seems to be a compromise... *sigh*

Anyway, I was having some problems with Blue (my fault, I bought a pulley kit that I 'assumed' was properly designed. It wasn't. Now I have to fix it.) and started thinking that there has to be SOMETHING out there that can give me most of the capability of a Boat Anchor (i.e., big arsed knee mill) that I can move without having to have friends with large hulking moving equipment. I talked to Ray C about a 932, but in my envisioned use case I would have to upgrade the motor and install a VFD to get the speed range I want. Matt has 'em, but I'd be putting it on myself and probably voiding my warranty. Probably not a deal killer by itself, but...then there's my biggest personal itch with those machines: the lack of travel in Y. Most of the RF45 variants can't even cover their tables in Y. Then it gets even worse if you install a DRO scale on the back of the table! This is not something I am willing to deal with. Do I need 12-13 inches of travel in Y? Not at the moment, but who knows what I'm doing years from now? Fairly certain I don't. :)

So then I get wind of this big hulking (for a hobbyist bench style bed mill) thingie from Charter Oak. After doing some cursory investigation, I find it's a re-hash of a IH(?) mill some of the home CNC types use/used but not without having to upgrade/mod the thing. Great. Another Chinese kit machine. NOT something I'm really into at this point. Then I had a few conversations with the folks at Charter Oak and even a customer of theirs or two. The major flaws of the previous design were addressed. Steps were taken to improve the build process and overall quality. Upgrades are provided for those who would like some of the big-guy features without having to go 'all in' on a boat anchor (oiling system, tool changing system, etc.). But the major selling point for me was that they use the same mill for the basis of their CNC mill. The ways are trued and ground. The machine is already designed for a oiling system. You simply have to drill and tap a few holes to install it (so I'm told. The proof will be when I install that upgrade myself, but NO ONE ELSE offers this as an upgrade). Oh, and the head/column interface was improved/enlarged to increase rigidity and improve longevity: that thing is huge for a mill this size!

Long story short, I decided to get it. After all the talk, it's the only way to know for sure. :)

(why couldn't I have taken up knitting as a hobby...)
 
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I don't think the G9901 stand footprint is much different than my G0755 (rf-45 clone). I use the space on the side under the table for stuff. I realize the CO doesn't come with stand so you can customize it to your heart's content. What it has the CO doesn't is power down feed with automatic stop and reverse, one shot oiler and 2325 pounds vs 700 on the CO. As far as the way quality, my 0755 is smooth full travel. If the G9901 was any less, I would wear out their phone until it was fixed. I don't know how far it is from Battle Ground to Bellingham but I would be tempted to drive there and inspect the machine I was buying.

Dave

Edit: What would it cost to refit this one with 3HP and VFD and some changes to the pulleys get the speed there? I doubt the bearings are an issue.
 
Guys, Maker of Things posted in my "I ordered a mill" thread with a pic of him standing next to his machine. Maybe I'm too easily impressed...but wow.
 
Dave I'm 250 miles from Grizzly but traffic around Seattle is insane. I was up there a couple weeks ago, left Seattle at 3pm and the stop and go traffic jam was 50 miles long. :cussing:Also add a 8% sales tax on the Grizzly machines for me. Those box ways are sexy though.
 
Guys, Maker of Things posted in my "I ordered a mill" thread with a pic of him standing next to his machine. Maybe I'm too easily impressed...but wow.

Chips by end of day Monday or you wear women's under garments.
 
Why am I already thinking of CNC'ing the 12z...somebody hit me in the head with a large tool. :think1:
 
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