The New 1340GT from PM

[zmotorsports]

TFC, I understand your frustration and I completely understand the customer issues. I too should have held on to my old equipment a bit longer, however, you know the saying, it is easier to sell something when you have a buyer. I at the time had an immediate buyer within a few weeks of the initial expecting date and figured it would only be a 2-4 week gap without equipment. I felt like I could deal with such a small delay without impacting my loyal customers.

Hindsight being 20/20 maybe I should have tried to hold on to it a little longer. Would I make the same choice on equipment? I would like to say YES. I did my homework and felt VERY good about the choice of equipment and in talking with Matt @ Precision Mathews. The only thing I was getting uneasy about was the 932 mill but it was more of a gut feeling than anything else. That was remedied when I negotiated the purchase of the 935TV Taiwanese knee mill from Matt. I feel especially good about that piece of equipment even though it was quite a stretch on the budget. The lathe for me was a no brainer based on the fact that it was Taiwanese and I have worked on a Taiwanese lathe for many years at my full-time job and had no issues at all with the quality or performance.

Matt ALWAYS returned my phone calls and emails, and still continues to return phone calls and emails, so that is a non-issue. I don't understand that complaint when I see/hear it because my situation has been the exact opposite. Matt has gone out of his way to respond to my questions and inquiries whether about an update or various other pieces of equipment.

I understand the difficulty in overseas ordering and customs. We have some equipment at work that we have to get parts out of Germany and have to plan well in advance when ordering. That said, they have never been as far out on shipping dates as this equipment has been.

I feel 100% confident that the lathe and milling machine will be everything in which it was described and relayed to me when purchasing. I will be very disappointed if it is not but again, I feel very confident that it will be.

I have told both Ray and Matt that when the equipment arrives I would be 100% honest in ALL of my reviews and experiences with Quality Machine Tools and the purchase experience, as I have had many people on this forum and a couple of other forums that I belong to send private messages asking for reviews when the equipment arrives. I also have a friend who is waiting to see my lathe as he is possibly looking to upgrade in the near future. I would still recommend these machines based on experience thus far with the only exception is that I will stress the time frame and insist that perspective buyers be aware and prepare accordingly. That response could change if after getting the machines I am not satisfied but I am not expecting that to be the case.

As far as my customers being upset, I have a couple that I am sure I will not ever see again, and a couple that were getting tired of the same answer but I am sure they understand. I am not going to solely blame someone else for that as I possibly could have done things differently and probably would have knowing then what I know now as far as delays. I have two VERY loyal customers that I have pretty much done the jobs for free as I have had to take the engine cases to a local machine shop for machining and there went my profit. But I have kept the customer happy and they are riding their motorcycles so hopefully they will return without question.

I hope you get your machine and it is everything that you expected and then some. Stay current and post up pics when it arrives.

Mike.

 

[Leagle]

I have recently ordered a PM 1340 GT lathe. I have spent, literally, hundreds of hours researching both new and used machinery and the purchase price of all kinds of machines. Assisting me in my search has been my mentor who runs a state of the art machine shop with eight CNC machines (lathes and mills) which cost right at $500,000 per machine in addition to manual machines which are far beyond what any of us hobbyists could ever dream of owning. After all of this research, my decision came down to which PM machine I would buy.

I really do not understand the complaints about delivery dates. You can't do any level of research on PM machinery without immediately becoming aware of the fact that Matt orders his machines in batches. There is no reason to believe that you are going to be able to name your delivery date.

Every estimate I have ever seen regarding deliveries has been heavily laced with warnings that delivery dates are estimates. Matt's business model allows him to sell very good machinery at good prices. My mentor, mentioned above, has repeatedly stated that he is amazed that machines of this quality can be sold at Matt's prices.

Choices on machinery are limited to 1) professional highest quality machinery that no hobbyist would ever think of buying, 2) machinery slightly below the highest quality professional machine that no hobbyist would ever think of buying, 3) very good quality machinery at roughly twice the cost of PM machines, 4) Asian imports which cost more (you must compare specifications, accessories, etc. VERY carefully) than PM machines and which you may or may not be satisfied with, and 5) PM machines.

If you are monitoring this forum, you are looking at machines in category 4 or 5. Machines in this category come down to Grizzly or PM. If you are considering any other Asian import machinery at this performance level, be prepared to really be disappointed. Go to other forums, or other parts of this forum, and see what people are saying about their machines. I am amazed at the number of posts from Grizzly owners who say that they are well satisfied with their machines, but wish they had bought a PM.

You can buy a "better" machine that a PM. You can buy machines and have them delivered almost immediately. Be prepared to pay double what PM charges for the machines which are being discussed on this forum. Even at that, you must be a VERY good machinist to be able to recognize any difference. Most hobby machinists, and many professionals, could not produce any better parts from the more expensive machinery. If you are going to be running a machine 8 hours a day, five, six or seven days a week you might be able to show that the more expensive machinery lasts longer. Hobby machinists couldn't wear out one of Matt's machines if they tried.

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but my pocket book won't let me complain about a one month (or even longer) delay when it saves roughly the cost of the machine.

 

[Havoc]

TFC, I understand your frustration and I completely understand the customer issues. I too should have held on to my old equipment a bit longer, however, you know the saying, it is easier to sell something when you have a buyer. I at the time had an immediate buyer within a few weeks of the initial expecting date and figured it would only be a 2-4 week gap without equipment. I felt like I could deal with such a small delay without impacting my loyal customers.

Hindsight being 20/20 maybe I should have tried to hold on to it a little longer. Would I make the same choice on equipment? I would like to say YES. I did my homework and felt VERY good about the choice of equipment and in talking with Matt @ Precision Mathews. The only thing I was getting uneasy about was the 932 mill but it was more of a gut feeling than anything else. That was remedied when I negotiated the purchase of the 935TV Taiwanese knee mill from Matt. I feel especially good about that piece of equipment even though it was quite a stretch on the budget. The lathe for me was a no brainer based on the fact that it was Taiwanese and I have worked on a Taiwanese lathe for many years at my full-time job and had no issues at all with the quality or performance.

Matt ALWAYS returned my phone calls and emails, and still continues to return phone calls and emails, so that is a non-issue. I don't understand that complaint when I see/hear it because my situation has been the exact opposite. Matt has gone out of his way to respond to my questions and inquiries whether about an update or various other pieces of equipment.

Hang in there Mike, Your machine will be there soon....I hope

I understand the difficulty in overseas ordering and customs. We have some equipment at work that we have to get parts out of Germany and have to plan well in advance when ordering. That said, they have never been as far out on shipping dates as this equipment has been.

I feel 100% confident that the lathe and milling machine will be everything in which it was described and relayed to me when purchasing. I will be very disappointed if it is not but again, I feel very confident that it will be.

I have told both Ray and Matt that when the equipment arrives I would be 100% honest in ALL of my reviews and experiences with Quality Machine Tools and the purchase experience, as I have had many people on this forum and a couple of other forums that I belong to send private messages asking for reviews when the equipment arrives. I also have a friend who is waiting to see my lathe as he is possibly looking to upgrade in the near future. I would still recommend these machines based on experience thus far with the only exception is that I will stress the time frame and insist that perspective buyers be aware and prepare accordingly. That response could change if after getting the machines I am not satisfied but I am not expecting that to be the case.

As far as my customers being upset, I have a couple that I am sure I will not ever see again, and a couple that were getting tired of the same answer but I am sure they understand. I am not going to solely blame someone else for that as I possibly could have done things differently and probably would have knowing then what I know now as far as delays. I have two VERY loyal customers that I have pretty much done the jobs for free as I have had to take the engine cases to a local machine shop for machining and there went my profit. But I have kept the customer happy and they are riding their motorcycles so hopefully they will return without question.

I hope you get your machine and it is everything that you expected and then some. Stay current and post up pics when it arrives.

Mike.

Hang in there Mike, Your machine will be there soon....I hope


danny

 

[TFC]

Leagle,

I agree with your points on machine quality, grade, availability, price, etc., etc. However, with all due respect and no offense, those of us who are experiencing missed delivery dates did not, as you put it, "name your own delivery date". QMT named the delivery date(s) and in my case QMT did not deliver on any of them so far. If QMT has experienced these types of delays due to a regular practice of batch ordering machines then they should have told machine buyers early on (i.e. January or February for some of us), that this would be or may be the case. I made a decision(s) re. the sale of existing equipment based on the good faith that the QMT delivery date would be reasonably accurate. I calculated that I could get by without or borrow time from friends' lathes while waiting the remaining 6 or 8 weeks for a new PM machine. Those decisions and/or calculations were made solely on delivery dates provided by QMT. This has gone on so long that I've long since used up all my favors. Encroaching on the lathe time/shop space of others is not a practice I like to carry on and I understand when I'm wearing out my welcome. Some will say that some of us made a bad business decision. Well, we made them based on our shop limitations and we trusted that QMT would be reasonably accurate in their stated delivery time.

If I were looking at this from the point of view of a pure hobbyist, perhaps I would not be so aggravated. Of course, I mean no offense to my hobbyist brethren as that's how I got started. However, I have spent many years building this small enterprise and my reputation. My reputation has been tarnished and that is unacceptable to me. Bad review spreads faster than good. No telling what the price tag is on that.

I have learned one thing in all this. When someone tells you mid April they could mean late July (or early August?).

One other point: the greater problem in all this is that we no longer manufacture much of anything in our United States. Therefore, we endure ruthless foreign business people, overseas shipping delays, customs delays, port authority delays, loss of manufacturing jobs.

 

[nickmckinney]

If I were looking at this from the point of view of a pure hobbyist, perhaps I would not be so aggravated. Of course, I mean no offense to my hobbyist brethren as that's how I got started. However, I have spent many years building this small enterprise and my reputation. My reputation has been tarnished and that is unacceptable to me. Bad review spreads faster than good. No telling what the price tag is on that.

I have learned one thing in all this. When someone tells you mid April they could mean late July (or early August?).

As a business owner I have been down this road a few dozen times. I purchased my lathe elsewhere as I could not afford the possible added down time. I have dealt with the Chinese New Year and shipping/customs woes many times in the past and seen 4-6 months added to delivery dates while someone else had my money and I was powerless. As a hobbyist the price point is much different, as a business a single machine being down/missing costs way more.

Doing the math at 150 units per year at $5000 each thats $750,000 gross on a single item out of many (add in the accessories and maybe its pushing a million on this item?) At those numbers its either time to stock the shelves so to speak or the profit margin is non-existent and its time to reconsider the business model - IMHO of course.

 

[Ray C]

As a business owner I have been down this road a few dozen times. I purchased my lathe elsewhere as I could not afford the possible added down time. I have dealt with the Chinese New Year and shipping/customs woes many times in the past and seen 4-6 months added to delivery dates while someone else had my money and I was powerless. As a hobbyist the price point is much different, as a business a single machine being down/missing costs way more.

Doing the math at 150 units per year at $5000 each thats $750,000 gross on a single item out of many (add in the accessories and maybe its pushing a million on this item?) At those numbers its either time to stock the shelves so to speak or the profit margin is non-existent and its time to reconsider the business model - IMHO of course.

... Kinda been down this road before but... stocking the shelves is not so easy when you only get your equipment from a few select suppliers that are willing to make the machine with specifications outside of the standard patterns and/or with accessories (like upgraded motors and internal gears) that are different from the rest of the pack. The factories are only willing/able to make so many of those. Other companies that "stock their shelves" are getting "pattern machines" from multiple factories and the quality of the machine the customer ends-up with a crap shoot.

The business model choices are to sell the basic stuff that everyone else sells or, increase the price to a level more in-line with typical machine markup and sell fewer machines.

Also, yes... the numbers add-up quickly at a macro-scopic level but, there's some other numbers that add-up too. Container freight cost thousands per box, shipping insurance is $1500 per box, customs tax/fees is a couple thousand per box. Broker fees... rail yard fees... temporary warehouse storage fees... Some of the mills have to be re-crated with a cost $200 per unit. Forklifts and maintenance fees. -And the labor to hire 3 guys both durable and smart enough to prep all the machines... That big number gets reduced real fast.

The fact is, the machines are sold at warehouse prices -not retail prices. Sure, we could change the business model and become a "boutique supplier of high quality manual machines"... Kinda like the way the hair cut place charges 35 bucks for a $3.50 bottle of hair soap.

Ray

 

[Havoc]

Yeah....
i just got an email from Matt, with tracking # and all .....My 1340GT should be at My House next week. Mike, did you get the same email?

danny

Wooohooooo My PM 1340 GT left PA, traveled 502 miles to Bolingbrooks IL. only 2000 miles to California now.

Yeah

Danny

 

[nickmckinney]

The fact is, the machines are sold at warehouse prices -not retail prices. Sure, we could change the business model and become a "boutique supplier of high quality manual machines"...

Haha Ray you are a "boutique supplier of high quality manual machines" I would bet a $2 bill that if you raised the prices up you probably sell the same amount if not more. If the product is sold so fast that you can't meet demand, then its priced too cheap. And if the increased price could cover more "direct"customer service, then its a win for everyone. No offense but being only able to reach you instead of QMT is an obvious problem.

 

[zmotorsports]

Wooohooooo My PM 1340 GT left PA, traveled 502 miles to Bolingbrooks IL. only 2000 miles to California now.

Yeah

Danny

Glad to hear that yours is on its' way Danny. I just received an email from Matt about 20 minutes ago. Although not with a tracking number yet, he did say that he is going to prepping the mill within the next couple of days and that I should see both units on approx. Wednesday August 6th. He said it will be about a week to UT from PA so I would assume he is planning on shipping it out his door by this coming Wednesday July 30th.

As the reply by Ray concerning the business model. I completely understand what Matt is going for, quality over quantity. After reading how many others were happy with their machines from Matt and personally speaking to Matt prior to my order placement, I too decided that I would rather pay a few dollars more for higher quality machines as I am impressed with how much thought and negotiating of better parts, bearings, etc has gone into his machines. All of the tools in my shop are of higher quality vs. el'cheapo tools and equipment.

That said, my only complaint thus far has been the delay from the original time estimate communicated to me.

Mike.

 

[Smudgemo]

Wooohooooo My PM 1340 GT left PA, traveled 502 miles to Bolingbrooks IL. only 2000 miles to California now.

Yeah

Danny

I sure wish I didn't hate driving so much. I'd love to swing by and check yours out when you're up and running. But I'll probably ask to see it when it gets to the point of actually placing my order at some future date. Feedback from my wife suggests now is not the best time for me to drop a bunch of cash on a tool I already have.

-Ryan