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The Stars Have Been In Alignment For Me This Week. Just Got My First Lathe, A D/r 11x36, 25-100

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thenrie

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#1
Early yesterday morning I outlasted another bidder and won a Delta 25-100 11X36 lathe. The lathe is missing a couple important parts, so I started shopping around to test the availability of things before I actually laid down my bid. Thanks to the RockwellLathe Yahoo Group, in a matter of days I scored a tailstock, a handwheel for the compound, and a taper attachment. All combined and including my travel expense to pick the lathe up, the price will approach what I have been seeing people paying for complete DR 11 lathes in similar condition, who have considered themselves to have made a good purchase. Still, it's a bit higher than I intended.

Here's what I paid, just for reference for the next guy who's looking:

Lathe, lacking the tailstock and the handwheel for the compound rest, including hardened bed, one 6" 3-jaw and one 8-9" 4-jaw, a turret type tool post, a couple of Jacobs chucks, and several bits and pieces $720 (ebay, "Buy it now" price was $750)
Tailstock $250
Handwheel $25
Taper Attachment $190
Shipping charges for parts $79
Fuel estimate to pick up $300
Total cost $1564

Not especially a rip-roaring deal, but it is what I was looking for. To tell the truth, I didn't expect to find all those parts all at once and expected to be able to spread the expense over several months (less noticeable to the mrs.), but I didn't want to risk passing on them and not being able to find them when I wanted them. The lathe appears, from the photographs the PO has provided, to be in decent condition, however I won't know for sure until I pick it up next week. It appears to have all the gears in place and none appears to have missing teeth or damage. From the history provided by the PO, it was in a municipal shop and was pulled from service a few years ago and just sat until it fell in the PO's hands. After a couple years he lost interest decided to sell it. Never even tried to get it working.

I'll provide pictures once I get the lathe home and into my shop. I've always wanted a machine lathe. After being a woodworker for many years and making lots of shavings and sawdust, I'm excited to finally be able to start making metal chips.
 

dennis

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#2
I hope that it will be a good machine for you. You will enjoy using it for many years.
 

RandyM

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#3
Looks like Christmas came early this year. :thumbsup: Let the chips fly.
 

xalky

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#4
No pictures?...it didn't happen. :))
 

thenrie

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#5
Oh boy. That stars alignment thing just goes to show how one can get dreamy-eyed and not see things as clearly as he ought.

I made all the classic errors in buying this lathe and I'm going to pay for it.

I made the drive yesterday and picked up the lathe. When I got there and took my first look at it, I could see it was not what I was hoping for. Right off, I could see the carriage had significant wear in it and that the lathe was well-used and very worn. The compound screw was jammed, the crossfeed slide screw had nearly 1/2 turn of play, and the lead screw showed significant wear, although I've seen worse. There was surface rust over parts of the ways and all other exposed metal surfaces, including the L00 spindle nose, the carriage drive handwheel shaft is loose in its bushing, and I mean LOOSE. There were dings on top of the saddle casting, where somebody used it as an anvil. As I looked, I thought, well this is going to be an expensive lesson to learn.

On the good side: The end gears, the spindle, bull gear, back gears, QC gears, all appear to be in good condition. The bed (hardened) appears to be in good shape, only one small ding that I have found, but not a problem. The Reeves drive is complete and appears to be in good shape. All the belts are there and appear to be in good condition. The covers are all there and in good shape. The rust in the pictures appears worse than it is (flash does that).

On the bad side: First, no tailstock and the compound rest handwheel is missing. This I knew beforehand. I have already found replacements and bought them. The compound screw was jammed in place. It was apparent somebody had twisted on the handwheel, trying to unjam the screw, that they overran the woodruff key and spun the handwheel on the shaft...which let do its being removed and lost. The lead screw shows significant wear and I haven't removed the apron yet to see what's behind it, but I'm already pretty sure what I'm going to find. I already mentioned the lead screw drive crank. Somebody used the top of the saddle casting as an anvil.

With the lathe came the following: A 6" 3-jaw, with both inside and outside jaws, a 9" 4-jaw with independent jaws, two Jacobs chucks, several reams, several HSS bits and one carbide, an enco-type turret tool post, a left and right and cutoff tool holders for a lantern tool post (which I don't have), a carriage stop, and a 1hp 115/230 motor.

The PO gave me what he knew about the history of the lathe. He said it was in a shop for a small manufacturing company who used it as a toolroom lathe to make prototypes of parts for their manufacturing business. When they took it out of service several years ago, one of the employees took it home. He kept it in his garage for a few years until he decided he wasn't going to do anything with it and gave it to the PO, just to get it out of his shop. He told the PO the lathe was working when it was removed from service. The PO didn't know enough to know better. The PO finally decided he didn't know enough about lathes to make it work, so he figured he'd rather have the money. He never mislead me in anything. I don't think he knows enough about lathes to be able to mislead me. I just didn't get all the questions answered before I bid. Once I made the bid, the mistake was mine, not his. Fact is, he still thinks I got a great price on a good lathe.

Well, I counted it a good lesson, loaded up and took it home. Had I been able to inspect it beforehand, I would not have bought it. Like I said, I got dreamy and jumped the gun, so to speak.

Having said all that, I am still pretty excited about having my first lathe. While I would probably be wiser to part this thing out and recover as much of my investment as I can, that's not what I intend to do. It just isn't in my nature. I plan to take it all apart, clean it up, replace everything that needs it, paint it, and put it back together. By the time I get it done I figure I'll know a thing or two about lathes. I already know I'm going to be upside down, cost-wise, on it. So that decision is already made. At this point, I'm about $1500 into it.

Next time I buy a lathe, I'll do it with a bit more experience under my belt, and maybe do a little better. This one is going to be like paying for a shop course.

I console myself by looking at an Osborne leather splitter I've been wanting. It probably weighs in at about 15 lbs and is as simple a machine as you can imagine, and they get $6-800 for them. Heck, a single 5/16 zinc flat washer costs 22 cents at Lowe's! My wife recently paid $2 apiece for apples! I reckon I didn't do so bad, when you put it all in an overall context.:))

2013-11-05_09-02-58_481.jpg 2013-11-05_10-25-25_14.jpg 2013-11-05_10-25-31_964.jpg 2013-11-05_10-25-52_539.jpg 2013-11-05_10-35-48_969.jpg 2013-11-05_10-38-28_451.jpg
 

xalky

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#6
I really hate to see things like this happen. Hopefully you can make some lemonade out of it. :(
 
D

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#7
That old lathe has some "beefy" gears in the headstock and gear train.

I look at this as a challenge!

Since you found most of the missing parts, half the battle is won!

The leadscrew is replaceable, but for the time being, it looks useable. You say the compound screw or is was it the cross slide screw that is jammed up, either way, they can be remade. Salvage the existing one to make another one by then replace it.

Overall I don't feel like you have that much to do the get the lathe running.

Now, that Reeves drive might be of question. I've never tore into one, see many in use years ago. Now replaced with VFD run motors in todays world.

We'll help you out getting the old lady running again!
 
D

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#8
On that Reeves drive, you can still buy belts for them. As for the variable pitch sheaves, if you can find them they are expensive. I would just overhaul them, most have bushings that can be remade/replaced. (Memory started coming back.)
 

richl

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#9
As others before me mentioned , as long as you are willing to do the work you will get thru this and in the end the lathe will be precise and strong. The only way this could turn I to a mistake is if you don't get it in working condition. I bet after you get it All together you will never question your purchase.

I did not pay much for mine , but after I purchase he missing and broken parts it will cost as much as you will have into your own.

Don't give up!
Rich
 

astjp2

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#10
Rich, use the lathe as a learning tool, besides we can work on rebuilding our lathes together. I need belts and a lead screw for starters. The carriage is fixable with Rulan, and I have a friend locally who is good at scraping so what he teaches me I will gladly pass along to you. Just think of this as a series of small projects that we can explore our machines together. Oh yeah, try to wire it for 220 if you have it in your shop. Tim
 

thenrie

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#11
While I was driving around doing errands yesterday, it occurred to me that since I am planning on "restoring" the lathe, the amount of wear in certain parts is sort of irrelevant. If there is any significant wear at all, you need to change/repair the part whether it's a little or a lot, to bring it up to spec. Period. If you have to replace a bushing or screw or nut, it is no more trouble to replace one that's a little worn than one that's really hogged out. Same with any part. In fact, I'm more likely to replace things that are really shot than things that are just slightly worn, so in the end, I'll end up with a better restoration, that meets or exceeds spec, than if it were only slightly worn. So, I'm feeling much better about the lathe now. As for the initial cost, in a few years I won't even remember that extra couple hundred bucks.

I am lucky enough to have a dedicated workshop these days (used to be 1/2 the garage), so I wired it with 220V throughout. I'm watching for a decent 3ph motor to convert to an RPC. I want to run the lathe on 3-phase to take advantage of the on-off-reverse switch that came on the lathe. I may look at a VFD, but have some concerns about the low-speed hp and torque and damage to the 3ph motor. However, it seems to me that if I'm using the Reeve's drive in conjunction with a static or VFD converter, that may overcome those worries, since the motor will stay pretty much at a constant speed. Suggestions and comments in this area are welcome.

As for the Reeves, my initial inspection indicated the belts, both on the Reeves and the smaller ones on the spindle, as well as the sheaves, appear to be in good shape. I didn't detect any cracking or dried-out appearance. The large belts are slightly curled on the edges, but not to the degree I'd be concerned. I'll know more in the near future, as I tear things down for cleaning.

Astjp2, I'm still in VA right now, but it looks like I'll be moving to your neck of the woods next summer, so you can bet I'll be watching your thread. Keep it going. By the way, I'm sure glad you posted that picture of your lathe on the trailer with the engine crane hoist. I acquired one just like yours last week, through some horse trading, and it made moving the lathe a one-man snap of a job, with no worries about hurt backs, dropped lathes, or tipping over.

2013-11-05 09.02.43.jpg 2013-11-05 09.42.09.jpg
 

toag

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#12
hi all,
don't own a logan or sheldon (or delta) but if the reeves drive is anything like the clausing varispeed (looks a bit like it), then there are some real slick rebuilds that replace the sleaves with molgice. here is a real nice job of one (hope they don't mind the link) http://wess.freeshell.org/clausing/Clausing.html
neat how he used a drill to power the lathe while fixing it.

edit:

also i think that in the end you'll be happy with your purchase. once you get it running, think of the stories you can tell the kids, or buddies while leaning up against it having a cold one!
 

astjp2

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#13
You don't need the varidrive and VFD, its redundant and just an added expense. a 220 single phase can also reverse, you just change the wiring around on the switch to get both directions. Tim
 

thenrie

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#14
Hmm. I didn't know that. The PO threw in a 1hp 115/230v 1725 rpm motor with the lathe. I expect I'll just go ahead and see about sticking that motor in there. I'll take a look at that tomorrow and see how things match up.

I pulled the carriage this evening. I'm going to need a new cross slide screw and nut, a lead screw, and the half nut, and possibly the carriage drive gear. I guess I need to start looking and pricing.

I also need to buy a set of punches. My smallest is too large for the roll pins in the lead screw and cross slide screw.

2013-11-06 19.20.31.jpg
 

astjp2

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#15
You might fix the half nut if you shave some off the middle and re tap it. Look for a 2 stage tap that is 3/4-8. Tim
 

thenrie

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#16
Those taps are pretty high in price. Anybody got a good used one they might sell?
 

frank r

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#17
Clean the gunk and as much rust off of it as possible (a fine wire wheel on a grinder is nice for smaller stuff). Spray it down with oil to prevent further rusting. Put it together and get it running. Then sell it and buy another lathe. Do not repaint if you are going to do this.

It will be easier to sell a running lathe that has been oiled up and runs smooth. Be sure to not hide anything from the potential buyer, but you do not have to trumpet its faults either.

Consider the difference between your buying price and your selling price the cost of tuition in getting schooled.
 

astjp2

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#18
If he is a tool junkie like me, I will replace almost every bushing, leadscrew and brass nut the machine has just because I can. Its a horrible addiction that has no cure except more tools. I pity my wife if she has to sell my shop off when I die. Tim
 

thenrie

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Clean the gunk and as much rust off of it as possible (a fine wire wheel on a grinder is nice for smaller stuff). Spray it down with oil to prevent further rusting. Put it together and get it running. Then sell it and buy another lathe. Do not repaint if you are going to do this.

It will be easier to sell a running lathe that has been oiled up and runs smooth. Be sure to not hide anything from the potential buyer, but you do not have to trumpet its faults either.

Consider the difference between your buying price and your selling price the cost of tuition in getting schooled.
Ah, we're already way past that, Frank. Tim there knows what I'm talking about. This is now my lathe. It will likely go to my kids one day. By then it will be in very nice shape. It will just take me a while. Then they'll probably sell it like one of those great "garage finds" you read about.:))
 

RandyM

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#20
If he is a tool junkie like me, I will replace almost every bushing, leadscrew and brass nut the machine has just because I can. Its a horrible addiction that has no cure except more tools. I pity my wife if she has to sell my shop off when I die. Tim
OH MY GOSH! Thank you for my diagnosis, Tim. I will start buying right away. :rofl:
 

thenrie

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#21
Just saw a taper attachment listed on ebay for $650. Makes me feel a lot better about the cost of my lathe:)). The same guy has a follow rest at $275 and a steady rest at $350. Pretty high when you can buy a complete lathe for under $1500. Has anybody thought about making castings for the steady and follow rests? Seems like it wouldn't be too tough a thing. I happen to be acquainted with a guy who has a professional foundry, if I could just come up with a rest to make a mold from.

Also, I saw a thread recently where somebody on the forum was making spanners for the DR L00 spindle out of plate steel, cut out with a plasma cutter. He was asking a pretty reasonable price, something like $22. I can't seem to find the thread now. I'd like to pick one up if anybody knows who it was.

Tony
 

astjp2

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#22
Just saw a taper attachment listed on ebay for $650. Makes me feel a lot better about the cost of my lathe:)). The same guy has a follow rest at $275 and a steady rest at $350. Pretty high when you can buy a complete lathe for under $1500. Has anybody thought about making castings for the steady and follow rests? Seems like it wouldn't be too tough a thing. I happen to be acquainted with a guy who has a professional foundry, if I could just come up with a rest to make a mold from.

Also, I saw a thread recently where somebody on the forum was making spanners for the DR L00 spindle out of plate steel, cut out with a plasma cutter. He was asking a pretty reasonable price, something like $22. I can't seem to find the thread now. I'd like to pick one up if anybody knows who it was.

Tony
I have several spanner wrenches, I can send you a pattern if you want. Tim
 

thenrie

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Please do. I'll have to cut it out with a torch and grind to shape, since my home shop doesn't yet include a plasma cutter...hmmm...:thinking:

Thanks. Email is tthenrie@yahoo.com.

Tony
 

astjp2

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Do you have access to a waterjet? Tim
 

thenrie

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Not that I'm aware of, but that's an idea. I'll look around. For being such a populous area, this place sure doesn't have much in the way of blue-collar stuff.
 

xalky

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#26
Just saw a taper attachment listed on ebay for $650. Makes me feel a lot better about the cost of my lathe:)). The same guy has a follow rest at $275 and a steady rest at $350. Pretty high when you can buy a complete lathe for under $1500. Has anybody thought about making castings for the steady and follow rests? Seems like it wouldn't be too tough a thing. I happen to be acquainted with a guy who has a professional foundry, if I could just come up with a rest to make a mold from.

Also, I saw a thread recently where somebody on the forum was making spanners for the DR L00 spindle out of plate steel, cut out with a plasma cutter. He was asking a pretty reasonable price, something like $22. I can't seem to find the thread now. I'd like to pick one up if anybody knows who it was.

Tony
Ideally, you'd want an original casting to make your pattern from. But if that doesn't pan out, you can always make a casting pattern from a wooden mock-up. You could even sculpt one out of dense styrofoam, You can make the pattern cheaply. Ask your foundry buddy.
 

astjp2

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Ideally, you'd want an original casting to make your pattern from. But if that doesn't pan out, you can always make a casting pattern from a wooden mock-up. You could even sculpt one out of dense styrofoam, You can make the pattern cheaply. Ask your foundry buddy.
I think he wants to make one from Plate steel, cheaper and still functional. Tim
 

thenrie

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No, no. I want to try to make a follow and steady rest pattern or mold and have it cast for me. The spanner I can make from plate!

On the rests, I was thinking that if several of us went in together, we might get a pretty good price on getting a few cast for us and just do the machining and making the screws and follows ourselves. Maybe the same type of thing on getting a company to make up several lead screws for us as well. I think I'm going to make a few calls this week and see whether it's even a viable option. Just an idea. The prices on those items on the used market has now reached the point at which it may be cheaper to have new ones made. We could probably have them made in China for $25 apiece!

Problem is that I would need to obtain a rest to make a pattern from. Anybody going to lend me one? I doubt it, at current prices. So I may have to buy one and make a pattern from it.
 

toag

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Not a crazy idea at all. I know a fellow who sells follower and steadys for clausings 5400,5900, and 6300 series lathes. he had castings made and machined them up. I remember prices being north of 275 for each. machining must have added alot, or he was looking to retire early.
Can save alot if you get a bunch to buy in, maybe make a casting of some 10ee followers too!
 

astjp2

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No, no. I want to try to make a follow and steady rest pattern or mold and have it cast for me. The spanner I can make from plate!

On the rests, I was thinking that if several of us went in together, we might get a pretty good price on getting a few cast for us and just do the machining and making the screws and follows ourselves. Maybe the same type of thing on getting a company to make up several lead screws for us as well. I think I'm going to make a few calls this week and see whether it's even a viable option. Just an idea. The prices on those items on the used market has now reached the point at which it may be cheaper to have new ones made. We could probably have them made in China for $25 apiece!

Problem is that I would need to obtain a rest to make a pattern from. Anybody going to lend me one? I doubt it, at current prices. So I may have to buy one and make a pattern from it.
The one thing you need to consider when casting is the shrinkage. There is a known amount that the patterns are larger than the product. I am no expert but I know of the process. Tim
 
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