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The Stars Have Been In Alignment For Me This Week. Just Got My First Lathe, A D/r 11x36, 25-100

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TomKro

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Nice "derustificator".

Very curious if the solution is aggressive enough to leave some sort of rust line at the liquid line? When using Pine-Sol, I found the item had to be completely submerged, or it left a nasty ring. Please take another picture when you decide to flip that bed over.

Coming along very nicely.
 

AR1911

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TomKro - you used PineSol to derust? It etches metal? More info please!

I just did two lathe beds with Evaporust. One I was able to completely submerge, the other had feet cast into the bed, which stuck up out of the solution. Since it was rough cast and mostly painted, I did not worry about etching. But it will certainly etch bare metal.

I think that Ford gray is what I need to paint my Wade, looks pretty close. Thanks for the tip!
 

TomKro

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AR1911: I was using Pine-Sol for bearing cleanup, and just happened to drop a small cast part in the coffee can to take the grease off. It takes some time (weeks), but it appears to penetrate and loosen the old thick layers of paint, appears to etch off the rust, and doesn't smell as nasty as some of the paint removers.

The down side is you have to remember not to leave bare steel parts in it for too long, as you get some sort of soft black film. Also, iron/steel must be completely submerged, or you get a gunk/rust line where the air hits the part.

I have not used Evapo-rust, and it may actually be cheaper (and faster) then Pine-Sol. I have a large plastic drawer filled with Pin-Sol, and I use the empty Pine-Sol bottles, filled with water, to bring the liquid level up around odd shaped castings. It is slow, but it works for me. After I clean up a casting, I coat the casting in light oil and set them inside another large plastic tub with a lid, waiting for decent outdoor weather, so I can prime and paint.

I'm curious to see the liquid line on Tony's effort to see if there's a nasty "ring". If not, Evapo-rust may be the better route.
 

AR1911

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Interesting. I'll try some of that for cleaning at least.

The etching is very clear, but it takes a week or more to happen. I have a set of parallels with a diagonal etched line across them. I'll try to post a photo in a few days.
 

John Hasler

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AR1911: I was using Pine-Sol for bearing cleanup, and just happened to drop a small cast part in the coffee can to take the grease off. It takes some time (weeks), but it appears to penetrate and loosen the old thick layers of paint, appears to etch off the rust, and doesn't smell as nasty as some of the paint removers.

The down side is you have to remember not to leave bare steel parts in it for too long, as you get some sort of soft black film. Also, iron/steel must be completely submerged, or you get a gunk/rust line where the air hits the part.

I have not used Evapo-rust, and it may actually be cheaper (and faster) then Pine-Sol. I have a large plastic drawer filled with Pin-Sol, and I use the empty Pine-Sol bottles, filled with water, to bring the liquid level up around odd shaped castings. It is slow, but it works for me. After I clean up a casting, I coat the casting in light oil and set them inside another large plastic tub with a lid, waiting for decent outdoor weather, so I can prime and paint.

I'm curious to see the liquid line on Tony's effort to see if there's a nasty "ring". If not, Evapo-rust may be the better route.
Pine-Sol has a bit of glycolic acid in it, which is probably what attacks the rust. IMHO you'd get equal or better results cheaper with phosphoric acid and dish detergent.
 

thenrie

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Evaporust will not actually "etch" metal. It simply removes any rust on the metal, which sometimes leaves the bare metal with a slight etched feel where the rust had eroded the metal. I believe one of the active ingredients must be phosphoric acid, which attacks the rust and leaves a fine black protective surface on the metal. I have found that some hardened steel comes out looking like it has been "blued". The coating is not durable and comes off with a little touch of steel wool, leaving a shiny metal part.

Etching is where the chemical actually eats metal, leaving a roughened surface. These kinds of products are used for prepping bare, virgin steel for paint. They actually etch the metal like sandblasting will etch glass. Evaporust and similar products do not etch metal. It will, however, soften paint, which is probably why you got the line you were talking about. I had the liquid coming up just barely over the machined surfaces of the bedways, so even if there is a line it will not be noticeable.

The temps were up yesterday, above the recommended 60 degrees minimum for using Evaporust, so I left the lathe bed in the solution for about 6 hours and got my son to help me lift it out. My camera battery was dead, so I don't yet have a photo. I'll try to post one later. It appears to have removed all the rust, but there are still dark stains left by the Evaporust. I hit it with 0000 steel wool a little bit, but it didn't do much good. In the final analysis, I don't think the results were worth the $80+ I spent on the Evaporust. It looks a little better, because the stains are gray/black, rather than rust brown, and I have the satisfaction of knowing there is no more rust, but I certainly could have spent that money in better ways, I think.

Still working on the paint on the castings.
 

AR1911

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The gray frost is microscopic pitting where the rust used to be. If you know a product that will leave that shiny and smooth, patent it.

also, Evaporust works fine with a layer of ice on top, as I learned last month. It just works more slowly but the results are the same.
 

thenrie

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The gray frost is microscopic pitting where the rust used to be. If you know a product that will leave that shiny and smooth, patent it.

also, Evaporust works fine with a layer of ice on top, as I learned last month. It just works more slowly but the results are the same.
Most of the parts I have "de-rusted" with Evaporust have come out very shiny and smooth after hitting them with a wire brush or steel wool (depending on the part). Now, I didn't say mirror finish. You are right. Once a part has been rusted, the only way to take it back to its original finish is to remove the surface down past the rust pitting. That's where I am with the lathe bed. Can't take it down past the pitting without ruining the bed. So I'll live with the little bit of pitting that is left after removing the rust.

As for temperatures, I have found that the effectiveness of Evaporust is greatly enhanced by warming it. I have a large crock pot that will hold a gallon. I set it on warm and leave parts in it overnight. Works wonderfully.

Here are some pics of the bed, before and after. You be the judge (remember, the flash enhances colors and makes things look worse than they are in reality).

Before:

2013-11-05 10.26.02.jpg 2013-11-05_10-25-43_305.jpg 2013-11-05 10.26.02.jpg 2013-11-06 19.20.50.jpg 2013-11-06 19.20.58.jpg

This picture was after cleaning with a razor blade and WD-40:

2013-11-06 19.20.50.jpg

After tanking in Evaporust:

2014-02-22_19-32-39_758.jpg 2014-02-22_19-32-59_803.jpg 2014-02-22_19-33-08_152.jpg 2014-02-22_19-35-15_346.jpg 2014-02-22_19-35-34_596.jpg

Looks a lot better than before, now that I look at the pictures. After I removed the carriage and tailstock, I scraped the ways with a razor blade and WD-40. That took the rust down to flush and smooth with the good steel. The Evaporust removed the remainder. After the evaporust, I went over the ways a few swipes with 0000 steel wool to remove the Evaporust "frost" (I hadn't thought of that word, but it is a good one to describe it).

Hopefully, I'll be putting things back together over the next two weeks. All the necessary parts have been purchased or made. All the castings are in the process of being painted, except the bed and cabinet, which I will leave for some other time. Both are getting a very thorough cleaning.

Still looking for a new cross feed screw and nut.

- - - Updated - - -

A couple of those pics came out really bad. Don't know why. I'll try to get better ones on Monday.

- - - Updated - - -

By the way, I finished the workbench for the South Bend lathe. I'm going to try to get it installed on the workbench next week. Once I finish the DR it will be the SB's turn.

2014-02-22_16-56-01_755.jpg

2013-11-05 10.26.02.jpg 2013-11-05_10-25-43_305.jpg 2013-11-06 19.20.50.jpg 2013-11-06 19.20.58.jpg 2014-02-22_19-32-39_758.jpg 2014-02-22_19-32-59_803.jpg 2014-02-22_19-33-08_152.jpg 2014-02-22_19-35-15_346.jpg 2014-02-22_19-35-34_596.jpg 2014-02-22_16-56-01_755.jpg
 

TomKro

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Tony:

That bed is coming right along. Looks solid. Thanks for the pics.

Also, very nice workbench. Looks good enough to use it for a kitchen table.

I guess you needed a lot of Evapo-rust to cover those ways, but the Pine-Sol wasn't so cheap either. I like John Hasler's idea, but I'm in need of a chemistry review in order to get a formula for the proper mix. I'd hate to go too strong and start chewing things up.
 

astjp2

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Tony, Dick has new crossfeed nuts for a good price. Tim
 

thenrie

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I know he has, but my cross feed screw is so worn that it wouldn't do me much good to replace just the nut. I think I'll stick with what I have until I can find both. They're not difficult to change out.
 

astjp2

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Do you have a taper attachment? If not, just order a nook screw and make a new one. The telescoping screw is only needed for the taper. Tim
 

thenrie

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Yes, I have a taper attachment. That's why I'm still looking.
 

astjp2

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Tony, do you have any pics of the cross slide screw? I may have found someone to make it. I am thinking that I may have one that is not telescoping to get my machine working, if not I am still looking because the screw I have is not an original size. Tim
 

thenrie

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I'll try to get a couple pics tomorrow. The difficult part is that the screw for the taper attachment has a keyed hole about four inches long in one end. The keys would have to be swaged and I expect it would have to be a custom made swage, unless someone could come up with an original from Delta Rockwell. You'll see what I'm talking about when I send the pics.
 

astjp2

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They were actuall broached, it was made as 2 pieced, once broached, it was silver brazed together with the other half of that part of the screw then the acme theread were cut. I found mine and will take a few pics of it tonight, so dont worry about it. I think that there is a better way to make it, its just finding someone to do it. Tim
 

thenrie

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Finally got the headstock back together. Took me a full two days. I have had a heck of a time getting the shifter aligned and the safety mechanism adjusted. Still not exactly right, but it will wait for another day. Looks pretty good. Forgot to take a shot of it upright, but I'll post one next week. Looking at the pics, I just realized I haven't yet cleaned the excess paint off the bottom of the headstock. I'll get that tomorrow.

2014-03-14_14-58-31_980.jpg 2014-03-14_14-58-43_394.jpg

I also got the last coat of paint on all the castings. Not perfect, but looks ok. Wish I had time and some help, so I could get the bed painted as well, but that's going to have to wait until next time I get the itch. Still cleaning and working on getting the cabinet painted. I plan to paint the chip pan before I put the lathe back on it, but I'll probably wait on the cabinet.

I have decided the "Light Ford Gray" paint is a little too close to white for my taste, but what's done is done. I could have darkened the paint in the can, but I ended up spraying the last two coats from a rattle can. Painting with a brush just wasn't working well with this paint. The spray coats look much better.

Tim, I know you already pulled your cross feed screw, but here are a few pics of mine.

2014-03-13_11-26-32_568.jpg 2014-03-14 14.38.41.jpg 2014-03-14 14.38.51.jpg 2014-03-14 14.39.13.jpg

2014-03-14_14-58-31_980.jpg 2014-03-14_14-58-43_394.jpg 2014-03-13_11-26-32_568.jpg 2014-03-14 14.38.41.jpg 2014-03-14 14.38.51.jpg 2014-03-14 14.39.13.jpg
 

thenrie

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Headstock complete! I'll reassemble the apron, carriage, and tailstock tomorrow.

2014-03-15_10-23-46_482.jpg

2014-03-15_10-23-46_482.jpg
 

thenrie

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I have seen a color very close to what I used on the later model 11s, which is why I went ahead with it. Now that it's done, though, I would have preferred a little more gray to it. One thing is sure, you can easily tell when the lathe needs to be cleaned...or at least wiped off!

I have finished the tailstock and apron. The saddle needs a little more work. I've been doing a little polishing - nasty, dirty work. I'll be working on getting the chip pan ready for paint today and maybe finish up some polish work.

More pics maybe today. My phone battery is shot and I only get about one or two pics or calls before it's done. Just depends on which comes first - the calls or the pics. I should have a new battery by the weekend.

Still looking for a cross feed screw in NOS or excellent condition, if anybody has a lead on one. Mine is very worn in the middle. Not worth putting it through a new nut at this point.

I have been reading up on the use of acetal for feed nuts and the thought has been rolling around in my head that I might take my old screw and turn the threads to where they are all even and the same dimension, then make a feed nut out of acetal for it. That wouldn't change the feed rate at all and should take out all backlash. Any reason why that would not work? At the very least, I think it would extend the useful life of the worn-out screw I have.
 

thenrie

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Almost forgot. I need to make a correction to a statement I made in an earlier post.

I said Evaporust will not etch good metal, but only removes rust from rusted metal. I was wrong.

Evaporust will definitely etch good metal if left for too long in the solution. I found that out when I left the nose of my spindle soaking overnight. Temps were in the high 20s and low 30s in my shop (only a wood stove for heat). Evaporust works best when warm, but works even when cold, just takes longer. I left the spindle soaking overnight. When I pulled it out of the solution it left a dark line where the surface of the solution was. I figured it was just sludge, but when I cleaned it off with 0000 steel wool, I could still feel the line with my fingernail. I few strokes with some fine emery took it off, but it was definitely an etched line. So, just a word of caution.
 

thenrie

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On Friday we had a bit of warm weather. Got up close to 70*. I enlisted the help of my son and placed the lathe bed and cabinet on my flatbed trailer and took them up to the house for cleaning (no water at the shop). I used Purple Power from Autozone. They had a 2-for-one sale on the stuff. It worked like a charm. I sprayed it on, waited a bit, them blasted all the muck off with my power washer. I went over it all a second time with the Purple Power and a green scrubber. She cleaned up pretty well. I dried off the bed ways with paper towels, because it started to flash-rust while I was finishing up cleaning the cabinet. I left them both in the sun to dry afterwards.

That afternoon I went ahead and applied the first coat of paint to the lathe bed. I used the reducer and catalyst and brushed it on. It flowed out very nicely and cured well, despite the cool weather. If I get another day or two of warm weather this week I'll put the finish coat on it.

On Saturday I sanded out the chip pan and applied the first coat of paint. I decided to paint it with the Light Ford Gray, like the lathe. The cabinet will get a darker gray. Again, I used the reducer and catalyst and brushed it on. It turned out well, but the weather cooled off again, so it still hasn't hardened completely. I'll give it a few more days before I try to apply the second and final coat.

Phone is still on the fritz. Hopefully I'll have pics by this weekend.

- - - Updated - - -


Getting exciting, guys! I started putting things back on the lathe bed for trial fits today. It's still sitting on the workshop floor right now, because I'm working on painting the chip pan and cabinet. I'm hoping things warm up enough by Thursday to put a final coat of paint on the bed and chip pan, and maybe get a coat of primer on the cabinet. I need to apply another coat on the gearbox casting as well.

On the gearbox, when I removed the threading guide plaque, I broke off two of the drive screw heads. A standard drill would not bite into them, so I bought a 5/64 carbide bit and tried to drill them out. The bit kept trying to slide off to the side. I broke the tip of the drill bit several times and had to regrind it. Finally, I just moved the plaque up about 3/16", marked the hole locations with a center punch, and drilled four new holes with the carbide bit. I then enlarged the holes to fit the new drive screws by re-drilling the holes with a 3/32 drill. I have filled and sanded the old holes and will apply a couple coats of paint. Shouldn't be able to tell the difference.

If the weather will give me a couple of warm days this week, I should be able to finish the last of my painting and get the lathe completely back together and on the cabinet again.

Next project will be to find a 3hp 3-phase motor to make into a phase converter.

It's all coming together and looking great, if I say so myself. Can't wait to get it running and making chips.

Sorry, no pictures. Phone is still on the fritz. Hopefully I'll be able to post some by this weekend.
 
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AR1911

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Tony, you DO realize you are destined for Hell for power-washing that lathe, right? :jester:
 

chips&more

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Almost forgot. I need to make a correction to a statement I made in an earlier post.

I said Evaporust will not etch good metal, but only removes rust from rusted metal. I was wrong.

Evaporust will definitely etch good metal if left for too long in the solution. I found that out when I left the nose of my spindle soaking overnight. Temps were in the high 20s and low 30s in my shop (only a wood stove for heat). Evaporust works best when warm, but works even when cold, just takes longer. I left the spindle soaking overnight. When I pulled it out of the solution it left a dark line where the surface of the solution was. I figured it was just sludge, but when I cleaned it off with 0000 steel wool, I could still feel the line with my fingernail. I few strokes with some fine emery took it off, but it was definitely an etched line. So, just a word of caution.

Nice job on your restoration! Evapo-Rust… I love the stuff! I did not know it could etch steel? Thanks for the insight. I do know it removes gun metal blue and black oxide finish, so be careful. And for a note, if I have a part to big for whatever reason, I just throw a rag soaked in the stuff onto the rusted area. Works just as good and saves on the amount of Evapo-Rust you use…Good Luck.
 

thenrie

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Tony, you DO realize you are destined for Hell for power-washing that lathe, right? :jester:
Well, now wait a minute! All I power washed was the bed! Just the bed!:panic:

Anyway, here she is in all her glory...on the floor of my shop. She'll look a little more glorious when I finish painting the cabinet and get her back on the top of it.

2014-03-25 14.08.09.jpg 2014-03-25 14.08.54.jpg 2014-03-25 14.09.32.jpg 2014-03-25 14.13.06.jpg 2014-03-25 14.13.19.jpg 2014-03-25 14.13.28.jpg 2014-03-25 14.13.35.jpg 2014-03-25 14.13.44.jpg

I still haven't finished with the gearbox, so it and the lead screw are missing in the photos. Maybe next week I'll have it all back together and on the cabinet.

Here's a couple shots of the befores:

2013-11-05 09.02.57.jpg 2013-11-05_10-25-43_305.jpg 2013-11-05_10-25-52_539.jpg 2013-11-05_10-26-04_793.jpg 2013-11-05_10-28-52_782.jpg 2013-11-05_10-29-31_552.jpg

Nice improvement, if I say so myself. I'm pleased with the way it is turning out. Now if I can just collect some more tooling without breaking the bank!

After I get it all finished and working, I'll post a complete list of what I have spent on the rebuild, so that others might be able to judge just how far they want to go and how much they may end up sinking into a "great deal on eBay", the way I did. No regrets, though, except that I wish my lathe had come with more tooling, like Tim's did :greenwithenvy:. Still, I feel pretty lucky to have come up with a taper attachment at a very affordable price. I'll eventually acquire or build a steady and a follow rest and a collet chuck, and little by little I'll collect the other stuff.

2014-03-25 14.08.09.jpg 2014-03-25 14.08.54.jpg 2014-03-25 14.09.32.jpg 2014-03-25 14.13.06.jpg 2014-03-25 14.13.19.jpg 2014-03-25 14.13.28.jpg 2014-03-25 14.13.35.jpg 2014-03-25 14.13.44.jpg 2013-11-05 09.02.57.jpg 2013-11-05_10-25-43_305.jpg 2013-11-05_10-25-52_539.jpg 2013-11-05_10-26-04_793.jpg 2013-11-05_10-28-52_782.jpg 2013-11-05_10-29-31_552.jpg
 
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GarageGuy

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That's an amazing transformation! Beautiful work! Hopefully now it will give you a lifetime of metal chips in return for your time and dedication. Tooling will come along. I find bits and pieces on Craigslist, and sometimes even score big. Be patient and check regularly, and you'll fill in much of what you need. Enjoy, you've earned it!

GG
 

astjp2

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Well Tony, if you are still coming out to Utah, you can tear it back down and start scraping all of the ways that need it. I have the abilities to do it now. Tim
 

thenrie

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It is looking pretty certain that we'll be heading to the Payson, Ut area. We're planning on putting the house up for sale in May. I'm going to be hauling all my tools out to my dad's place in Arizona and put them in storage until we find a place and get settled. Once I get a workshop in shape I'll haul everything up to Utah and get set up. Who knows how long that will all take, but once it's done, I'll sure be coming to see you, Tim. I think my bed is ok, but the ways on the saddle and tailstock could use some work. I'd like to learn how to scrape and do it well.

Back to the lathe. I have a question. The wipers on the saddle of my lathe were made of rubber. Before I noticed that, I bought some felt to make the wipers out of. What material are they supposed to be?
 

astjp2

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Mine are felt and the 10" was felt also. Tim
 

thenrie

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Just won an ebay auction for an 11" faceplate for my lathe. The owner had it listed as an L-1 mount, but looking at the photos with his tape measure, it is definitely a L-00 mount. I have bid on and watched a couple others that ended up selling for well in excess of $150. I picked this one up for $72 including shipping. I was the only bidder, I guess because of the mislabeled mount. It's not a genuine Rockwell faceplate, but who cares. I'm happy.:))
 
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