Thinking on buying a PM 1340GT

Matt M: I bought a PM 1340GT last July. With the "upgraded" package and several post purchase upgrades. I have no problem being objective about it.

I bought mine specifically for gunsmithing work. I use it for other stuff but chambering barrels was the main use case.

Off the top I would say it sits somewhere between the "green" and other mainland machines and some higher end Taiwanese machines like Sharp etc. The price is right in the middle too. I have gunsmithing buddies, some professional and some hobbyists like me who own both of those ends of that spectrum.

David Best's machine is a work of art. I didn't go that far but I did add a custom VFD control board equipped with a micrometer proximity stop that is a HUGE improvement. Check out Mark Jacobs here on this forum and if he is still doing it I highly recommend it. You can see one on David's machine. With the VFD I leave the belt in high range and even with the stock motor I can dial it down to 70rpm for doing parting or drilling without the motor seeming to complain at all. I am very happy with this setup and I think it puts the whole machine into another class. Threading is an absolute joy with the proximity stop.

I went with the Easson DRO and had PM install it. This is where my first gripe is. They didn't check the clearance on the Y sensor bracket and the bracket rubs the casting near the head and tail stock. Have to take off and grind the bracket down. Otherwise the install is fine. The Eason DRO itself is very nice. Really like the display. I just bought PMs lower end DRO to install on my BP mill but it's not up and running yet. I may post a comparison at some point between the two if the Easson is worth the money. I can say it has been rock solid.

Next gripe is the quality of the "precision" 4-jaw chuck. I'm not thrilled with it. I know 4-jaw chucks are prone to vibration but this thing shakes the machine more than I think it should. It's not very smooth to adjust either even though I totally broke it down and cleaned out all the shipping goo. Wish I'd just forked out the $ for a Bison if I was going to upgrade. Sure it would have been 3 times the cost but now I'm considering buying it anyway and I'll be out the money I paid.

Speaking of vibration the base is the next gripe. Is it horrible? No. But I wish the base was cast iron. I like the base David built too. I am sure either a cast base or something like that would help with some of the vibration I see from time to time with that chuck or when I'm doing a muzzle brake job and I've got the receiver end in the spider off center. To be fair I haven't seen it be an issue with my finishes or holding a cut. The machine does very well. But when you see the DRO and the lamp shaking around at certain resonances it's annoying. The good thing is a touch of the speed on the VFD can often dampen that out. At the end of the day this isn't a massive machine, I think it weighs about 1300 with the base? This is why my professional gunsmith buddy is better off with his Sharp. Very similar machines in many regards but his is much heavier. Since he is in it for production he needs to run harder and faster. So expectations need to be adjusted accordingly. I am fairly cautious with my DOC. I don't go at things real aggressive and tend to go a bit slower. That may be more a factor of me than the machine though.

The last gripe is the open gear box. It is a big pain in the butt to oil. Now this is a factor of any open gear box design. So not fair to put on PM or any manufacturer. However I bet there could have been a better design put into the oiling system. The way it comes from the factory is a terrible design IMO. I very much like what David did for his by replacing that crappy plate that sits above the gears and probably will do something just like it now that my mill is up and running.

The belt that comes with it is junk. Not sure why they are still shipping with it. Upgrade to the Gates.

But gripes aside I would say this is a very nice machine and I'm glad I stepped up from the mainland machines and got it. I was on the fence for that and would say I landed on the right side. Am I biased because I own it? That's a fair question. Maybe a little. But I'd say most of what I'm griping about is minor stuff and rectifiable while the main points of the machine are good. The spindle is true to spec, I'm able to dial the machine in to hold very good tolerances and it runs and cuts well. So far the barrels I'm chambering are shooting like lasers. So I'm happy. Like any machine you will want to add things to fit your preferences like making a cross slide stop since the factory one is covered by the DRO scale. Get a QC-TP! There are a lot of PM owners here and plenty of posts on this forum about customizations. Haven't really engaged PM service for anything but I read they're good.

Hope that's fair and objective feedback.
 
Matt M: I have a PM1022 lathe. Not in the same league as you but it is Chinese and "ok" at best. I also bought a PM833T mill and being made in Tiawan the fit and finish is noticeably better.

If I were you, I would look at the 1440. Matt from Precision Matthews has superb customer service, which is certainly worth something when dealing with machinery. My next lathe will either be the 1340GT or 1440GT.
Also, I recently discovered Eisen Machinery which has Tiwain made machines. I am trying to compare them and PM but it is laborious getting an accurate comparison. I have read good things about Eisen too. Of the 1440's I was trying to compare, it seemed that Eisen was a good deal cheaper, but cannot confirm that all specs are apples to apples. Not much help I know but...

The PM-1440gt (and I believe the 1340gt) are made in the same factory as Eisen. The PM-1440gt head was designed and built specifically for Precision Mathews and is unique in that regard with the D1-5 spindle and 2" spindle bore. The gearbox, bed, carriage and tail stock are common to some of the Eisen lathes.
 
Thank you to COMachinist and Jbolt.
I don't know if Matt M is learning anything but I sure am.
 
I sure am learning a lot. OK, now here is a curve ball:


I looked at this machine the other day It is almost as advertised. The ways have been ground and scraped. A beautiful job was done. The backlash in the controls is as close to non-existent as can be. The general appearance seems to "as new". However upon inside inspection I noted that the belts had not been replaced and it did not look like it had been disassembled. This indicates to me the machine had not been "completely rebuilt". I asked the owner about this and he said, "They must have done something for $12,763.67 which is what he said they charged. He did not have any invoices or record of work done.

$11,000.00 seems a little high, but looking at the Taiwan machines it is not that much higher. I won't pay 11k but if I could get it somewhere around 7or8 I might bite.
 
Used machines are a crap shoot, at least in my area. I have helped a number of people look at used lathes. I always bring a TDI on a mag base and a precision ground test bar. Have run into a few reconditioned machines that looked good but had badly worn ways. If I can't put power to it and see it run I'll pass.

As to 1440's

I've had my PM-1440GT for a few years now with well over a thousand hours on it. Over all I am very pleased with the lathe as it fits my current needs. The cost for the basic package has increased $1500 since that time which makes it a little tougher to justify over the 1340gt. Looking at the current prices for other lathes I was considering at the time the costs for those have gone up similarly.

The real selling points for me over the 1340gt were the D1-5 spindle (huge step up from the D1-4), 2" spindle bore (wouldn't buy another lathe with less than), pull-out chip pan and foot brake (must have).

Other things I like:

12 speed gear box with a good range of speeds

Easy lathe to true and keep true.

Precision spindle bearings exceed published specifications

Bed casting is high quality

4" travel on the tail stock

Back chip shield is well made and of heavier gauge steel. Has no problem supporting the weight of my CXA tool holders



The things I don't like:

The access for the coolant pump is stupid. I moved it outside of the base where it is easily accessible.

The base is short for me (6'1"). I built a 6" riser to get it high enough to be comfortable to use.

Steady rest capacity of only 2". I have since built a second steady that will take up to 8"

The chip tray only pulls out 1/3 of the way before hitting the drain outlet. At some point I will relocate the drain outlet and put the tray on full extension slides.

Factory belts are crap. I replaced those with Gates belts when I did the 3-phase motor / VFD conversion.

Compound rest mounting is lighter duty than it should be. I have replaced the compound with a solid riser. I only use the compound now for short tapers that I cannot do with ground HSS tools.

Of minor annoyance is the need for change gears for metric threading. Most common metric threads can be done with one change gear and it only takes a few minutes to swap.


I cannot comment on the factory motor or electronics since I changed all of that with the motor/vfd conversion.
 
Last edited:
I sure am learning a lot. OK, now here is a curve ball:
$11,000.00 seems a little high, but looking at the Taiwan machines it is not that much higher. I won't pay 11k but if I could get it somewhere around 7or8 I might bite.

I am unsure what the curve ball is, you have not indicated the parameters/type of work you will be doing and price range. Looks like a screw on chuck, what threads can it cut (i.e. do you need metric), no foot brake, how are you going to power the 5 Hp motor assuming it is 3 phase..... As JBOLT outlined it is a crap shoot buying used machines unless you know specifically what you want, why you want it and are able to thoroughly evaluate the condition. Otherwise you are probably buying a boat anchor.

If you are in the 7 to 8K range than the 1440GT would be my recommendation, primarily because of it capabilities, design and features like a 2" spindle. If you want to go bigger and heavier than you might look at the Eisen 1440GE or if you want a factory VFD then the 1440EV, but note that these both have D1-4 1.5" bore spindles, you want to step it up a notch in weight and rigidity, then start looking at the ERL/TRL-1340 lathes and the RML-1440/1640. These are offered by a number of different vendors (like Kent, Acra and QMT). I have worked with numerous individuals with different lathes from many manufactures, have owner the 1340GT and currently an ERL-1340. A full time gunsmith purchased my 1340GT and loves the lathe. In the fit and finish department it is a big step up from the comparable mainland China machines, it is a feather weight in that it is around 1000lbs and is not the last word on rigidity. But it has a very nice working envelope and will hold finished tolerances under 0.001" with ease, It was always a pleasure to use, I have no regrets and would have kept mine had I not moved. Go to other forums and you will find similar positive comments on the 1340GT, it is built to a price point so don't expect the moon. The comments are all the same. There is a wealth of information as to tricking it out to whatever degree you heart desires. Some go all out, others KISS.

On the 1340GT my comments are similar to others, but I accepted certain limitations of the machine because it wasn't 2000+lbs. My primary issues were lack of a foot brake (which can be mitigated by using a VFD with a braking resistor), mine had vibration node (which was chuck specific, I did not have it with lighter chucks) which is minor at around 650 RPM (W/O a VFD you probably wouldn't detect it), because it is a "light" machine it is a bit more susceptible to chuck imbalance, you are limited with rapid material removal say DOC > 0.1" due to rigidity. The earlier bases flexed, the newer oners are much more solid and have 6 leveling feet. The Norton gearbox is what it is, you get a wide range of gears with no change gears, it is messy and the oiler system requires a lot of oil to get to all the gears unless you put in a pump oiler. It is the same design used on the Eisen 1236, Grizzly G400X series and countless other lathes through the decades. It is a proven design, and really I see no incentive for manufactures to invest in new manual lathe designs with such a small market. I expect the same deign to be around for many years.

So there are several distributors of lathe in the US, but say you are in the budget range of 5-10K it significantly narrows the machines and options. Basically Grizzly (of which none are made in Taiwan at this price point, but there is the G4003G and G0709), QMT/PM (1236GT, PM-1440GS, 1340GT, 1440GT) and EIsen (1236, 1440E, 1440GE). Everything else (new) you will probably regret buying. Start looking at features, many of the Eisen and QMT lathes are from the same manufacture, but some like the 1440GT have added features/options. You are also buying a package deal, post purchase support and a warranty duration/long term parts support. Saving a few dollars at this price range is meaningless if you do not have post purchase support/parts.

Sorry, but as you mentioned yourself you sold your "Clausing/Colchester at an obscene profit", good used iron is becoming increasingly scarce and there are new machines lathes that yield similar finished tolerances, the limitation being the user. If you want a used machined that is truly in pristine condition, expect to pay a boatload for it, and prey that if something breaks you can get a replacement part at any price.
 
Last edited:
For another data point I just took delivery last week of a new Eisen 1440K. As far as I can tell, this is identical to the PM 1440HD lathe. The specs show the spindle through diameter is 1.5" on the Eisen, mine measured 1.570" so I think it's comparable to the larger rated (1 9/16") PM spindle bore. It would appear the PM has a better DRO, the Eisen uses a "Sino" brand DRO.

This is a very heavy machine for this class/price point, around 2500#'s. I visited the importer here in CA, and ran several versions of the Eisen 1440, the EV as well as the standard model. I was disappointed by both. Walking around the warehouse, I noticed a number of nice looking "Clark" brand1440K lathes new in crates. When I inquired, I was told these were mainland Chinese lathes as opposed to the Eisen which was Taiwan. I asked that one of the "Clark" lathes be uncrated and powered up, which they did. The difference was night and day to the Taiwan Eisens- this was a really nice lathe and I bought it on the spot.

287901


The importer included the lathe, various chucks, DRO, delivery and set up inside my shop in the purchase price. Not just delivery mind you, but installing it inside my shop.

But what about the Eisen that I took delivery of? Well what showed up was the exact same lathe except that the "Clark" badge had been replaced by an Eisen badge. I had recored the lathe serial number that I ran at the shop and it was the same machine.

Further investigation revealed that this machine has been in production for decades under different names, and is still sold under different names. The claim that this is a Chinese lathe is really not the whole story, I found out that while the large castings are from mainland China, the rest of the machine is sourced and assembled in Taiwan. Inside the electrical panel all the electronics gear is Siemens. The overall feel of the levers and controls is really nice- far superior to the lighter duty 1440's, and at least one source claims the spindle bearings are Timken.

Feel really lucky to find this jewel of a lathe, I went out there to buy a different 1440. What I learned from this is that you can't rely too much on spec sheets, no substitute for actually seeing and running the lathe.
287901
 
Any particular reason you went w/the Eisen over the PM?
 
Well, this is interesting.
So IF the PM 1440HD is the same lathe as this, the price difference is $948 between these two for Darbikrash. He had mention for the purchase price they delivered AND set up the lathe in his shop. Can't beat that with a stick. For the rest of us, assuming a $500 freight charge, the Eisen is $448 cheaper than PM, but until one looks at ALL of the specs (lead screw size and pitch, warranty, etc) it will be hard to say which one is a better deal. We all know that Matt's customer service is outstanding.
 
Back
Top