Tools For Lathe And Mill From Shars And Enco

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11/29/2015: Added Enco to title since posts include comments from both.

I just finished setting up a PM1236 Lathe and PM932M-PDF Mill from Precision Matthews, but at this point I have zero tools and I've never used a lathe or mill before. So I'm not in a good position considering Black Friday is around the corner.

I plan to place an order with Enco, but Shars appears to sell some better quality items and they have a 20% off Sale starting tomorrow. I could really use some help making a list. I've listed a couple items I'm considering (prices before discount) but comments/additions are welcome. Thanks.

SKU202-0011 Pro Tram System 1/2" Shank With 0.25" .0005" Indicator $109
SKU 202-1279 Electronic Edge Finder $42.75
SKU404-9041 1/2"-1" M2AL 4pc Roughing End Mill Set $59.95
SKU303-5502 Ultra Precision 1-2-3 Block $24.50
(?) 2 Flute End Mill Set
(?) 4 Flute End Mill Set
(?) V Block(s)


Also looking at carbide tipped boring bar sets (plan to get one each of C2 and C6) but not sure of size(s)?
 
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What makes you think Shars has better quality stuff than Enco? Shars sells almost exclusively offshore import tools while Enco sells everything from the same inexpensive import stuff to Starrett, Brown & Sharpe, and other tools that are highly regarded. MSC, KBC, Travers, and others do the same. Some of the offshore stuff is getting noticeably better with time, but I find it hit and miss from any of the suppliers, and regardless of the paper tag brand name on the box. Get all the catalogs and get on all their mailing and email lists. Then you can choose the best of the best deals as they appear. Do not be afraid to return any items that do not meet your standards.

Just starting out, pick the best sale price including freight and take your chances. Some (most?) of the tools will need work new right out of the box. Only buy what you absolutely need until you have more experience. Wait for the great sales with the best discounts, like you are doing here, and buy a few things at a time that you will need for general work. The tram system is completely optional, and you can get by just fine without it. A standard edge finder is more reliable and cheaper, and the battery never goes dead. "Ultra Precision 1-2-3 Block $24.50." Ha ha ha, LOL!

Not trying to diss you here, just telling it as I see it...

Keep on the lookout for quality vintage tools in great condition on Craigslist and elsewhere and make some great deals on some nice tools as well.
 
There's a member selling resharpened end mills, $15 for 5 lbs, and his ad is still up. I don't have any further details, but he's posted his phone number. His eBay ads say local pickup only, but he might be willing to pack 'em in a flat-rate box for a forum member???
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/resharpened-end-mills-reamers-micrometers.40037/

Also, Enco sent me a postcard with two offers, good until 11/30, that might be of help to you:
25% off merchandise (except machinery) - SPECIAL
Free UPS ground shipping up to 125 lbs - OFFER
 
Well I don't know what you got with your machines, but a vise for the mill and a quick change tool post would be considerations if you don't have them.

I agree with Bob about the tramming system and the electronic edge finder.

I'd get a dial indicator and a mag base, possibly more than one indicator.

Good sets of letter, number, and fractional drills, as well as some centering drills.

Micrometers or a good set of calipers.

Clamping kit for the mill if you don't have one.

Dykem, scriber, and square.

Many other things, I'm sure, but what you have listed along with what I've listed would be a good start.
 
Go to Enco, pull up their hot deals for November and start loading your cart. They've got a decent collet set #231-4611 there as well as most of what you have listed above. I have that size mill and wish I had a 8" rotary table instead of the 6" I have. You can find it there too. Get a good Dial Test Indicator for setup. Other items Spillmaster oil cups, Vactra #2, Vactra #4, Scissor Knurl #505-4518 or step up to better, boring bars, HSS tool bits, Indexable cutting set(possibly Shars 7 piece set), drill bits, did your machines come with drill chucks?, 20 piece end mill set (page 124 main catalog), calipers?, micrometers?, cutting oil. WD-40 gallon and squirt bottle.

When your cart is full and you can't find anything else you can't live without don't forget to use your 25% discount "Special" and free shipping discount "Offer".

Dave
 
Get a dial indicator or two and build the tramming aid you are looking at. Simple useful project.

Dave
 
Enco stuff is fine and they have great customer support Plus a current 25% off and free shipping!

Mill:
Vise, I suggest you invest in a good vise like a Kurt (see 25% off above).
Parallels.
Collets, you don't need every size just the ⅛-¾ by 1/8s.
Edge finder regular, not electronic. especially as a beginner you want to get the feel of the machine, electronic aids tend to insulate you from that.
End mills, As others suggested get quality surplus off eBay, craigslist or the member here selling them by the pound.
Forget the tramming aid or as others have said build one for your first project.
Lathe:
A quick change tool post is a good idea, the Phase 2 (wedge type) is decent enough.
A set of tool holders with carbide inserts this will get you started turning right away but it is advisable to learn to grind HSS tools as well.
General stuff:
A good caliper
A good micrometer.
A good Dial indicator with a magnetic base and a spindle mount. a test indicator is also a good idea.
Wiggler type center finder.
 
Sorry but I forgot to mention what items I already purchased. For the mill, I upgraded to a Quick Change Tool Post and the Homge 5" High Precision Vise with a Swivel Base. It also came with an R8 Collet Set and Drill Chucks. I also have the ES12 DRO's for both machines. Since then I've purchased a Vertex 8" Horizontal/Vertical Rotary Table and Divider Plates. Otherwise I have a set of micrometers I purchased years ago which should be fine.

I should have also mentioned I want to stay away from used tools until I've used the machines for a while. Since I've never used a lathe or mill before, being able to eliminate the used tool factor in case anything goes wrong or doesn't come out the way I expected, is a plus. It's just my personal preference for now.

I have a massive list of tools for these machines... but figuring out what I should get early on vs. what can wait isn't completely clear when I haven't used either machine yet.

I've been through the Harbor Freight thing before and stopped going there a few years ago. I've never dealt with Enco so I'm clueless as to how well that will go, but they have both import and USA made items which will at least give me a choice. But there is no feedback... even Harbor Freight has reviews... and making returns to a mail order company is a pain. Wonder what percentage of items they sell that are never returned due to the inconvenience of mailing them back.

I'm retired but can step up with some items depending on how much I think I'll use the tool and the price difference. My biggest problem is narrowing down a particular dial indicator, end mill set, etc. I will need a bore kit at some point but not sure how they work or how to choose the size. Yeah, I can wait on that one but hey, if I could figure out why not get it at 25% off.

Thanks for the Enco codes Hman. Those couple extra days will help a lot removing some of the pressure involved with placing an order before I'm ready.

Thanks for the list and part numbers Dave. I did purchase Vactra #2 but not sure why Vactra #4 as well so I'm curious where you use one versus the other. I appreciate the part number for the knurling tool which will come in handy early on when I start making knobs. I did think of making my own tram tool but it's something I need right away and I already have enough on my list to last me a while. BTW, I'm not sure if making a tram tool on a mill that needs tramming is a good idea?

As far as my original post is concerned, I only said Shars "appears" to sell "some" better quality items and I still think that's true. And the Pro Tram System does appear to be one of those items. If I'm wrong, I can return it. Now, if anyone has already purchased that item and found out it was worse than a less expensive version from Enco, then that's another thing altogether. As far as 1-2-3 blocks are concerned, I was told not to purchase them from Enco because the unthreaded holes are the wrong size so they can't be properly bolted together, whereas the ones from Shars are correct.

Thanks for the replies... oops, Eddyde replied while I was typing. More to read!
 
I would think about what projects might be high on your list, and tool up for them.
 
You can tram a mill just fine with an indicator holder mounted on or in the spindle, and an indicator of any type. Swing it around and it will hit front, back, and both sides of the table. Bump and tweak the partially loosened head until the needle stays the same as the indicator goes around the circle. You will need those tools anyway for many other purposes. I would a lot rather have a multipurpose quality tool like a Noga indicator base than a tramming aid, and I do! Indicating stuff is a PITA until you get a Noga, then it is child's play.
 
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