Upgrading My Cnc Machine

Not sure why I got multiples of several of the pics but just about everything is shown except for the left side servo which lifts/lowers the table. Lost it in the download somehow I guess.
I'm hoping that least some of the buttons and control knobs and pots will be reusable on the new controls and there is a swing arm on the left side of the machine that this operator control cabinet was mounted to. Had to remove it to move the machine and this cabinet alone must weight close to 200 lbs. I think there are a couple power supplies I can reuse and several other control items, but nothing has any markings on it so it may take some time to determine just what is what and what I can reuse with new controls.

Thanks for any help you guys can give me.

Bob
 
What I know about modern CNC hardware is squat, but I do know you're going to have a couple of empty boxes. The computing power of two laptops will replace all that hardware. You've got a lot of potential there, three axies powered, plus the quill.
You've got a set up many of us would like to have.
 
Wow, that's an oldie but goody. Given that the servo amps (drives) are Gettys then I think it's safe to assume that the motors are also. Not sure what the black boxes are above the amps, rectifiers maybe? You have your drive power transformers on the left, one for each servo. So it looks like you have the complete system there.

All you have to do is hook a motion controller to the drives, sprinkle in a little software and you be making chips in no time.:) It's really not much more complicated than that.......OK, maybe a little bit, but not bad.

I can't read the data on the Gettys amps but those part numbers will tell a lot. I'm going to guess the the input voltage might be 120VAC, but the turns ratio on the transformers might help figure that out. You need to determine the function of the black boxes for sure.

It looks like there are a bunch of ice cube relays in there, I have no idea exactly the function of those are. It would take a while to trace some wires out to see what they are connected to. The are probably not needed with a new computer interface, depends what the coil voltage is to determine if they are useful.

I would keep the tape drive on the machine just for the cool factor.:cool: It doesn't have to do anything, but it would be a conversation starter:grin: In fact, you could run the modern controls from the original operator panel, just need to add a flat panel screen.

There are a lot of options out there, so now it's just a matter of budget.
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Jim,
The numbers on the Gettys controllers are voltage and hertz hand written for some odd reason. No other part numbers that I could find on them.

The pictures don't really show what poor shape the tape drive is in. The clear plastic cover is broken off and the drives themselves are about to fall off. The rest of the stuff like circuit boards and electronic components in the tape drive cabinet is completely covered in a heavy coat of dust. If I can figure out how to rewire the controllers, rectifiers, and transformers to new controls and save some money in the process that would be fine, but I'm thinking all the ice cube relays and wiring from the operator cabinet will be replaced.
I would prefer all new modern controls so I can at least troubleshoot the equipment if the need arises or have an online manual or guide to install and/or repair if necessary.
Now, to figure out what the next step is. Do I need to figure out the size of the motors somehow? How do I replace the existing encoder on the table shaft? the one on the front to back control is a belt drive unit, but the shaft mounted unit on the left/right table control is in poor shape and needs replacement. I'm thinking that new controllers may require new encoders all around. Also, the knee raising motor doesn't have any type of encoder on it at the moment.

Lots of potential in this machine for sure. Air supported oiler system, cooling system, air hoses, and lots of other things. Almost too much machine for a hobbyist like me, but the price was right so I'm not complaining. :)

I'd like to rehab this machine for under $1K if possible. Hopefully, substantially under that but time will tell. Any help anyone has to throw out there would be appreciated. What I really need is a description of what pieces are needed from the operator interface, to the controllers and/or motion controllers, etc... right to the motor connections. Then, at least I can start pricing pieces and hopefully come up with a wiring scheme to connect it all.

Who makes decent equipment? Are Gecko drives worth while for this process? What DC voltage range should I be looking at for drives? Are any of the Chinese units on ebay worth considering? Lots of questions- hope I don't drive you guys nuts by time this is done but I'd like to get started possibly next week to get this thing reworked and in running condition. Lots of projects in mind to tackle.

Jim, if you feel like driving out from Sandy to take a look at this thing I would be glad to provide pizza and adult refreshments or other enticement to make it worth your while. :)

Thanks for the help,
Bob
 
Just to clarify, I use the term servo amplifer (amp) and servo drive (drive) interchangeably in this context. The amp is really just a tracking power supply that tracks the command input voltage and outputs a proportional PWM motor control voltage through a standard H-bridge output section just like any good DC motor controller.

BobSchu said:
Do I need to figure out the size of the motors somehow?
Click to expand...

Not if you use the existing power supplies and amps. The existing amps require a +/- 10VDC command signal. All analog motion controllers output this signal. I would not replace the amps unless they are not working, even then I might concider just repairing them. Normally it's the power transistors that fail if they don't work.

BobSchu said:
How do I replace the existing encoder on the table shaft? I'm thinking that new controllers may require new encoders all around.
Click to expand...

Encoders come in many sizes, shapes, and resolutions from probably hundreds of different vendors. It would be best to first decide what motion controller you want to use, then match the encoder outputs to be compatible. Then find a mechanical match. Depending on the lead screw pitch, a 1000 line encoder should work.

Automation Direct may become your friend in the near future.

Before deciding on a motion controller, you may want to decide what CNC control software you want to use to insure compatibility. Mach3 is probably the most used in the hobby world, and there are many controllers that are compatible.

I am not familiar with the specs of the various controllers, but I know that Gecko is well regarded. I don't know if they have a stand alone motion controller that outputs the +/- 10 V command signal. If they do, that would be a good solution. A used Galil controller would be a good option also, there are a bunch of them on ebay, and compatible with Mach3. Another member here (Alloy) picked up (stole) an 8 axis Galil 4080 from Ebay for $900. We put that in his Shizouka AN6, and he spent a summer of weekends completely building a control system from scratch in my shop. It is running Mach3. In fact it's still here, I need to finish some software spindle speed control and the tool changer. He doesn't have room for it in his shop right now anyway.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GALIL-MOTION-CONTROL-DMC-1880-Rev-G-/281950196689

If you want to go the Galil route, my CNC software is absolutely free! Right now it will only run on WinXP, but I'm in the process of re-writing it to be compatible with Win7-10.

A road trip to Hillsboro might be possible, too bad you didn't start this last week, I was in Hillsboro last Sunday picking up some new toys for my shop.
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Jim,
Looking at the Galil drivers motion controllers on ebay, there seem to be a ton of them. Any particular one that would be best for my situation? I looked at the Mach3 site the other day and I noticed they now have Mach4 and I'm not sure but it sounded like Mach 3 was going to be discontinued? I probably misunderstood, but I'm a newbie so this wouldn't be a total surprise..

Now, I need to do a bit of homework and look at where the board will connect to my existing drivers and start trying to develop a wiring scheme. Easter weekend and all will undoubtedly slow me down a bit, but I plan on giving it a shot to at least get a good start on it. I'm definitely not up on writing code or programming so that will be new to me. I'd like to incorporate some control switches on the operator board to run the machine in "manual" mode for small projects that don't require programming. Don't most of these boards or controllers have inputs for that purpose? I know the existing operator board had control buttons for these functions.

After your comment, I found some Getty DC servos on line and I was glad I was sitting down. I was pretty shocked at what they cost, but I guess I shouldn't be as this is a pretty heavy duty industrial machine so I'm guessing these are industrial grade motors.

Bob
 
Got a bit more time to inspect the machine. At the moment it is stored outside under a tarp but hopefully, not for long. Just need to make room for it in my shop. Weather finally cleared enough to take the tarp off for a good inspection.
Found the controller number and will start to look up information on the Getty 11-1010-40 Servo controller. Possibly get lucky and find a manual on line. Also had a chance to look at the quill drive and that is a very neat set up. Would like to find a way to install an encoder or DRO rail on it so I can track it, but that may be a later addition.
Some pics of the controllers with connections001.JPG 001.JPG 002.JPG
 
The Galil DMC-1880 I linked to above is (was, it sold in the last 24 hours) the best deal on Ebay right now. I went through all of the listings last night, most of them are not useful for you. There was a reasonably good deal on a DMC-4143 ethernet board. Some of the pricing makes me wonder what those guys are smoking. You can buy a new DMC-4143 w/four 750W servo amps built in for $2570. I just put one of those in a job a couple weeks ago. Mach3 is being discontinued, but don't worry about that, there are about a million users out there. Last I heard Mach4 was not working with Galil yet.

You can run the machine from the keyboard jog or with a MPG (Manual Pulse Generator) Here is an example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-C...748751?hash=item3a9e963acf:g:7eIAAOSwyZ5Um8VT

Industrial stuff ain't cheap. But sometimes you can find great deals. Wait until you price out a new AC servo system:eek: About $5K per axis.

As far as adding control to the quill system, no problem. Anything can be done if you're creative enough.:encourage:

That wiring looks simple enough, even has all the functions silkscreened on the board, much too simple. Those boards must connect to the black boxes above which then connect to the motors. I don't see the motor connections on the boards, but I can't see all of the board. Being SCR controllers, those things must be pretty bullet proof. I've never seen a SCR servo controller before. Must be using some kind of a phase shift circuit (like a light dimmer) rather than a PWM output.

Keep asking questions, there is lot's of help here.
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Okay, this is starting to make sense to me now. The controllers seem to have the rectifiers built in behind the label covers and a controller to the black boxes, which are just flat covers for the DC transformers. Probably the SCR for the DC transformers for servo speed control?
Assuming the controllers are intact (and the guy I bought it from assures me it was), other than the VFD I already have to generate the 3 phase for the motor, and a motion controller board for 4 axes, what else would I need to be up and running? I would like to get rid of the existing operator box and possibly install a new box on the swing arm with a touch screen controller mounted on the front cover, or a plain screen with controls for the various functions- left/right, up/down, forward/back. Can this be done with remote pots or buttons wired to the motion control board or is there additional hardware to add to the electronics to make it happen? The size and amount of equipment needed will of course determine the size of the new operator box.
There is a 24V power supply for control power in the motor starter box so that is covered also. Once I really started looking, I realized there is an encoder hidden on the other end of the left/right servo motor and the exposed unit is actually a tachometer. All the limit switches are in place and connected also, including the quill power. Those controls are on a driven cam in the box on the right side of the machine where the drive motor is located.

Could it be almost as easy as mounting a computer in an operator box on the swing arm, wiring it to a motion controller in the controllers box, hook up the VFD to the motor, supply a 240V source to the machine, and then do set up with Mach3/4 or your program? It might be as this thing did work at one time with the existing system and all I've removed is the operator box at this time. Would I also need a breakout board with parallel port or is that all included on the motion controller? I seem to be missing something here. Not surprising as I'm learning on the fly....

Much appreciated,
Bob
 
BobSchu said:
Assuming the controllers are intact (and the guy I bought it from assures me it was), other than the VFD I already have to generate the 3 phase for the motor, and a motion controller board for 4 axes, what else would I need to be up and running?
Click to expand...

A computer, CNC software, and some cables.

BobSchu said:
I would like to get rid of the existing operator box and possibly install a new box on the swing arm with a touch screen controller mounted on the front cover, or a plain screen with controls for the various functions- left/right, up/down, forward/back. Can this be done with remote pots or buttons wired to the motion control board or is there additional hardware to add to the electronics to make it happen? The size and amount of equipment needed will of course determine the size of the new operator box
Click to expand...

You will need buttons and a pot for spindle control. Also you will want a control power, servo power, and E-stop buttons. Everything else can be operated from the keyboard or a MPG. Today you can get some pretty tiny computers. I installed one the other day that is about the size of a hard drive, I also have a couple of mini computers here that are about 8 inches square by 2 inches thick. The is also a new micro computer available that is about the size of a new smartphone for about $99.


BobSchu said:
Could it be almost as easy as mounting a computer in an operator box on the swing arm, wiring it to a motion controller in the controllers box, hook up the VFD to the motor, supply a 240V source to the machine, and then do set up with Mach3/4 or your program?
Click to expand...

That's about it! ;)

BobSchu said:
Would I also need a breakout board with parallel port or is that all included on the motion controller? I seem to be missing something here.
Click to expand...

You will not be using a parallel port on this system, it will use a PCI card, Ethernet, or USB depending on what motion controller you choose. If you use a PCI card controller, you will need a 100 pin cable (Galil P/N CBL-100-1M, $135 and a breakout board (Phoenix Contact P/N 5602077, about $159 on Ebay). You may need a different breakout board depending on the motion controller, I can help spec it out when you decide what direction to go. There is a lot of hardware available out there.

Take a look at this thread, it chronicles Alloy's upgrade
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/shizouka-an-s-build.33868/

And mine.
http://www.dawsoncontrols.com/millupgrade.html
 
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