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[4]

Well, this dosen't look safe!

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Finster

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#1
Side loading a grinding wheel? Bad stuff can happen when you do this. These types of wheels are not designed to be side loaded and here is a tool that is designed to do just that! I found this when I was looking for a cheaper alternative to a drill doctor 750X
Woodstock-D4144-Drill-Sharpener-New-_57.jpg

I wonder if anyone had had a wheel shatter using this device? Looks like a lawsuit in the making to me.
 

Bob Korves

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#2
I must admit to using that setup quite a lot, on a 6 x 1" bench grinder. I still use it, rarely since I got the Drill Doctor 750x. There are very light side loads on the wheel while grinding the bit, if you are doing it correctly. A crash might be catastrophic, but there is no reason to ever have one if you are paying attention. The drill jig mount is also flexible enough to give if there is an accidental heavy feed. I have ground hundreds of drills that way, with very good results (after the learning curve.) I used it enough to kill the bearings on the grinder from side loading them, and I have replaced them. (I have also done heavy hogging on that belt drive grinder.) That is the worst I can say about it. The good news with my setup is that I stand completely to the side of the grinder, away from direct hits if it should let go. The wheel I use is only slightly worn from the hundreds of drills ground with it.
 

pdentrem

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#3
Used one for years. Never had an issue and it is only sweeping past and does not dig in like from the front with a large gap tool holder will.
Pierre
 

Finster

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#4
Looks like it may work well and be safe with a carbide grinder if you could make it fit. I'm going to stick with the drill doctor 750X I suppose.
 

brino

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#6
Those things do get "trashed" here quite regularly by the higher-end machinists.

However I just got one recently, and it works great!
I got it after a bunch of investigation. (I'll post a link if I can find it to a review of Drill Doctor vs. this type of sharpener)
The Drill Doctor was just not in the budget, and I believe this will serve me well.

The only problem I have is that I moved the sharpener base before measuring/marking the location after I found the "sweet spot". Now I need to go thru the "calibration" process again.....

Putting on my flame suit!
-brino
 

Finster

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#7
I'm sure they work well. I do not doubt that. I also believe that the chances of a wheel exploding is slim when this is used correctly. My point here is that, personally, I'm not going to take the risk. I saw a wheel explode in a shop once. Messed the guy up pretty bad, he had shrapnel in his legs, stomach and lost two fingers. It was from side loading also. If a wheel does explode, chances are that you're not getting out of it without injury. Just not worth all of that for a sharp drill bit in my mind. To each his own though.
 

mikey

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#8
Putting on my flame suit!

-brino
Why, Brino? These drill sharpeners have been around forever and they have worked ever since. Nothing wrong with them if they do the job for you. I know we're told not to side load grinding wheels but I haven't heard of a wheel exploding due to side grinding drills. I have personally had a grinding wheel explode on me while grinding at the front.

Lot of guys have used the side of the wheel for sharpening. The Brits do it and documented their fine jigs for this very purpose. I think if you are careful not to shock the wheel or take super-heavy cuts, it should be fine.
 

Dinosaur Engineer

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#9
I'm sure that most of us know about wheel side loading and have used the side of the wheels many many times without any problems. As long as common sense is used and only light loads are applied I've never seen or heard about any problems during the last 50 years of my engineering carreer .
 

brino

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#10
Lot of guys have used the side of the wheel for sharpening. The Brits do it and documented their fine jigs for this very purpose. I think if you are careful not to shock the wheel or take super-heavy cuts, it should be fine.
Oh hey, I agree completely!
I use it and like it.

It's just this topic usually brings out the folks that say it's a death trap and will never be an acceptable way to use a grinder.

The "flame suit" comment is a perhaps a little in jest........I know this site would not put up with real abuse.

-brino
 

Rustrp

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#12
There's a couple of things that happen when a wheel explodes and the first is the quality of the wheel, the second is a wheel that's been abused or not dressed or someone has used the wheel for nonferrous material and not cleaned it up. I don't think sideloading should be ignored because everyone will do it different. I've used the shapener pictured in two different shops and they were set up so the face of the drill was used, not the side. I think the big difference in how it's used, is how the grinder is mounted. Due to the limitations placed on the grinder when it's mounted on a bench, I mounted mine on a pedestal, so now it's a pedestal grinder. With a bracket or tool rest in front of the wheel to mount the gadget, it works as intended. They work better than I can grind by hand but you don't get split points, and in the larger drill bit category this isn't an issue. When a grinder is mounted on a bench (I know they're bench grinders) there's no alternative for the everyday home shop guy but to use it as it's shown. Make a bracket and mount it so it can be used on the face.

"I've done it like this for years" he says to the ER doc.
 

Rustrp

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#15
It's just this topic usually brings out the folks that say it's a death trap and will never be an acceptable way to use a grinder.
I think if someone chose to do so it's all well and good. I think most wheel disintergrations come from cheap, poor quality wheels or abuse, but as an employer I would never allow someone to sideload a wheel. My first choice in using this attachment as it's shown would be a cup wheel designed for the application. I have one I've used so many times it looks new. The are many alternatives to using the side of a wheel. I think more accidents occur caused by the incorrect clearance of the tool rest to the wheel than will ever occur by sideloading.

I think you were looking for a reason to wear the suit. :D
 

mikey

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#16
All joking aside, I took another look at this and found out that vitrified grinding wheels have less tensile strength than porcelain or glass. See this: http://en.kuretoishi.com/support/attention/follow.html

I suppose a lot of guys who bear down to grind a HSS tool on a wheel are unaware that even on the rim, the wheel is not intended to take that much load bearing. We KNOW we should let the wheel cut but I think too many of us think this is too slow and we're gonna MAKE that wheel cut faster by bearing down. Big mistake.

If I had to grind tools on a bench grinder I would opt for CBN wheels. No danger of explosion and you can grind on the sides all you want.

I can tell you that when a grinding wheel lets go, it is truly amazing to realize how powerful your anal sphincters are and how fast they can contract! Same goes for a snapping belt on your belt sander when it lets go with your face just inches from the belt - makes you a true believer in personal safety equipment.
 

ELHEAD

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#17
Just a thought but wearing the wheel side and weakening the circumference be more of a problem than than simply the side load. I just recently set up the Craftsman version (US made by General I think) and placed min in the front. I've only used it on larger bits so far an thought they did a great job.
Dave
 

Bob Korves

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#18
Those things do get "trashed" here quite regularly by the higher-end machinists.

However I just got one recently, and it works great!
I got it after a bunch of investigation. (I'll post a link if I can find it to a review of Drill Doctor vs. this type of sharpener)
The Drill Doctor was just not in the budget, and I believe this will serve me well.

The only problem I have is that I moved the sharpener base before measuring/marking the location after I found the "sweet spot". Now I need to go thru the "calibration" process again.....

Putting on my flame suit!
-brino
How close the nose of the tool is to the wheel is how you set the back rake and chisel angle, and is different for different helix angles.
 

Terry Worm

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#19
I used one of those jigs for many, many years, first in my dad's shop, and I now have something similar made by Atlas. They both use the side of the wheel. As others have mentioned, the forces involved are very light, although I must admit that there is always a slight risk of someone trying to use it without a proper education first, but I know that the chances of that in my shop are slim to none. None the less, a full face shield hangs at my grinder and I use it every time I use the grinder. My boys know to use it also, and thus far I've never seen them use the grinder without it.
 

Bob Korves

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#20
Just a thought but wearing the wheel side and weakening the circumference be more of a problem than than simply the side load. I just recently set up the Craftsman version (US made by General I think) and placed min in the front. I've only used it on larger bits so far an thought they did a great job.
Dave
I have ground hundreds of drills on the side of one aluminum oxide 100 grit wheel, and if you looked at it you might guess someone tried to grind one drill on it. There is absolutely no visible 'wasp waist' on the wheel. It appears barely used. Cuts are kept light, no hogging, even on heavily damaged drill points. Hogging on the face of a wheel can also create grooves and explosions.
 

tq60

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#23
Some grinding processes are on sides such as thrust bearings and the wheels are fine.

We have a collection of these that we have picked up over the years at estate sales as people have no clue what they are for.

Get bits by the box so no need to sharpen many...too many other chores like figuring out where to put the stuff we drag home from said sales...;-)

The point is having a suitable Grider with minimal end play and good bearings so side loading works followed by having a suitable and correct wheel.

Best to have a dedicated machine so fixture once in sweet spot stays there.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk
 

Silverbullet

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#24
Have any of you watched an idiot grind anything on a grinder. I have seen so called mechanics and machinist , jam the piece in so hard it stops the wheel and do it from the side as well. I'm amazed some live , self taught hammer and chisel butcher's. The abuse a grinder gets is just criminal. Have you ever seen a lawnmower blade sharpener, made to rotate both directions, but if there not taught how to be used wheels are destroyed arbors bent motors burnt up. But I've only ever seen surface grinder wheels explode . I think the bonding agents are much stronger in the pedestal type machine wheels.
Now the sharpener in question. If you can put the amount of pressure it would take to break a wheel grinding a drill to sharpen then you need to be on a weight lifting team not a machinist. I own one of these and have it mounted to a 1"x 42" belt grinder, it's been used so often the platen needed to be replaced. At one time I owned and operated a sharpening service . Not for machine tooling but blades, saws , home , farm and garden. When the cheap throw away years started it was no longer worth the time to do sharpening. Circular saw blades up to 6" a big $1.00 each. handsaw filed and set for $5.00 , those were done by hand and took an hour or so. People thought I was robbing them too. Enough tangent if you use the tool as it's supposed to be you will never explode a good wheel on a grinder.
Don't ever be afraid to tell someone there in danger , it may save your hide and others. So really your right.
 
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Silverbullet

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#25
Those things do get "trashed" here quite regularly by the higher-end machinists.

However I just got one recently, and it works great!
I got it after a bunch of investigation. (I'll post a link if I can find it to a review of Drill Doctor vs. this type of sharpener)
The Drill Doctor was just not in the budget, and I believe this will serve me well.

The only problem I have is that I moved the sharpener base before measuring/marking the location after I found the "sweet spot". Now I need to go thru the "calibration" process again.....

Putting on my flame suit!
-brino
c
Even if you Mark or drill a mounting hole , longer drills will change the sweet spot. I made several tapped holes to mount by length.Every shop I worked in it seemed I was singled out to do the off hand large diameter drills. I guess I had the knack, I also did different angles for different metals also thinned the web , even grinding in chip breakers .
 

blu73

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#26
I also have one of these sharpeners. As far as any lawsuit potential, the instructions that came with mine state that the tool should only be used with a wheel made to certain ANSI standards to withstand side loading. If the others who market this type of tool include that directive, I would guess they are off the hook if a user blows up a wheel that is usually found on a hobby level bench grinder. How many of us really go out of our way to find a proper tool for this task? I know I didn't. I looked this over and made a conscious choice to disregard what the directions say. I feel I am able to work within the abilities of the wheel. After all, it isn't going to blow up just by touching the side with a minimal amount of pressure on a very small contact area. I have probably hit the side of the wheel harder by mistake when doing other work than I will by sharpening a drill there on purpose.
 

Finster

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#27
I also have one of these sharpeners. As far as any lawsuit potential, the instructions that came with mine state that the tool should only be used with a wheel made to certain ANSI standards to withstand side loading. If the others who market this type of tool include that directive, I would guess they are off the hook if a user blows up a wheel that is usually found on a hobby level bench grinder. How many of us really go out of our way to find a proper tool for this task? I know I didn't. I looked this over and made a conscious choice to disregard what the directions say. I feel I am able to work within the abilities of the wheel. After all, it isn't going to blow up just by touching the side with a minimal amount of pressure on a very small contact area. I have probably hit the side of the wheel harder by mistake when doing other work than I will by sharpening a drill there on purpose.
That's interesting, I didn't know they had a "disclaimer". It's not so much the people even on this forum. Most of us know better and have knowledge of grinders. The point is that this is being sold to the masses. People that may not know any better and do something unintended like try to grind an angle on round stock or something. Just theorizing here. My point is that this is a setup for someone that does not know any better to get hurt and I hate to see anyone get hurt. Yea, for people like us, it's one thing but for a complete novice or some kid messing around in dads garage when he's not around, it's something completely different. I guess that's really my point.
 

Norseman C.B.

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#28
This thread brings to mind the old adage about opinions and anal orifices.
These rigs have been in use longer than I've been breathin, and I'm definitely no puppy..... :grin big:
 
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Downunder Bob

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#29
Side loading a grinding wheel? Bad stuff can happen when you do this. These types of wheels are not designed to be side loaded and here is a tool that is designed to do just that! I found this when I was looking for a cheaper alternative to a drill doctor 750X
View attachment 232047

I wonder if anyone had had a wheel shatter using this device? Looks like a lawsuit in the making to me.
We had one, actually two of these when I was an apprentice. A small one on a 6"wheel and a larger one on a 10"wheel. they were both permanently mounted and the grinders were dedicated for drill sharpening. Both devices were made in house, and worked perfectly, they also ran on the front face of the wheel not the side.

Both machines they ran on the right hand wheel, which was fairly fine, the left hand wheel was coarser and was for roughing a drill that was damaged.

Never saw a wheel shatter on these machines, in fact I think the only wheel I ever saw shatter was a brand new wheel just fitted. the person who fitted wisely stood to the side while running it up.
 

NortonDommi

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#30
Any worries just fit a cup wheel or leave the standard wheel in place and make an extention to replace the nut and protrude thought the hole you make on the outside of the safty gaurd and mount a diamond facing disk,(the cheap ones for use on an angle grinder), and then you can sharpen drill bits and carbide tools. So little load that the Diamond will not dissolve into the iron. It's for sharpening not shapeing.
 
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